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I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still bette

I forgot to take my MacBook Pro's charger with me but could still charge it using my iPad's charger (USB-A to USB-C, mind you) - albeit very slowly. Still better than nothing, though. If only iPhones had USB-C…

bluejekyll 6y ago
Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’ll wait to upgrade to the last moment. On a similar note, it seems Nintendo with the switch has hobbled USB-C in some way that standard equipment won’t work with it, like charging over generic USB-C, is this accurate? Has Sony similarly hobbled the spec for PS4/5?
- robin_reala 6y ago
  Not for all their portable devices; the iPad Pros have been USB-C since 2018, and the iPad Air since September this year.
  - bluejekyll 6y ago
    Ah, thanks. I actually totally forgot about. Maybe I should get one now (2 years later) to help spur them on.
- eru 6y ago
  I can charge my Switch on random USB-C power sources. (No clue whether it's as effective as the included charger, but certainly works well enough.)
  - bluejekyll 6y ago
    That’s good to hear? I think I was seeing issues with that on some of my chargers, maybe I need to double check the power ratings on the bricks.
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  I think they're keeping lightening to help their 'eco' brand. They just removed chargers from the iPhone box because 'everyone has one' - if they suddenly changed to USB-C on iPhone it would create a LOT of ewaste. I still think they should switch, but I reckon it's because they'd get accused of hypocrisy if they deprecated it.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    Even apple chargers are regular USB at the charger-end, right? Just include a cable then, problem solved. Or the apple way: an adapter.
    - chrisfinazzo 6y ago
      Most of them, anyway. I've been putting an Apple Watch SE through its initial paces over the past week and was mildly disappointed to find that only Series 6 ship with a Type C cable in the box - the SE uses Type A. The same split is true for iPhone 12 Pro, so far as I can tell, even though (curiously) my 11 Pro from last year did include a 20W Type C Power Adapter in the box.
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    They could just as easily spin it as “Now you can use the charger from your macbook, meaning only one cable!” Or, if they want to get really wild: they can openly talk about the other usb-c devices that you might have.
- nfriedly 6y ago
  As I understand it, Nintendo didn't intentionally hobble their USB-C port, they just screwed up the Power Delivery implementation. (And didn't care enough to fix it.) Some chargers are tolerant of Nintendo's mistakes, others aren't.
  - bluefirex 6y ago
    The dock uses a non-standard implementation of USB-PD, the Switch itself can charge just fine with just about any charger, though. As I understood it, the dock randomly switches between different voltages depending on load, while portable mode uses plain old USB-PD with a consistent charge. While you can use the dock with Apple's 61W charger, it's not really recommended, since it can still get bricked with a software update. The 87W/96W charger isn't safe for the dock at all.
- bluefirex 6y ago
  USB-C is now a requirement for me to upgrade my iPhone. I'm holding onto my XS until they switch to that.
  - bochoh 6y ago
    I think we’re more likely to see a port-less (read MagSafe only) iPhone sooner than a USB-C version. I will say the iPad Pro with USB-C was a revelation for usability though. Not to mention companies like Flir being able to create one product line.
    - bluejekyll 6y ago
      I don’t know about that. The physical port is still useful for hard resets and management of a “bricked” device (granted I’ve only needed that on an older device, and never on the model I currently have).
      - yellow_postit 6y ago
        Does Apple still get a cut in lightning licensing? If so I think they will move engineering heaven and earth to avoid losing that revenue stream so also agree with the above poster that I’d put money on moving to the wireless.
        quesera 6y ago
        That's absurd. There is zero possibility that third-party licensing income for the Lightning port standard is a consideration in any engineering decisions at Apple.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Apple could keep around a hidden diagnostic port, like they do on Apple Watch and HomePod.
  - TheRealSteel 6y ago
    The lack of USB-C is the reason I didn't replace my Airpods with more Airpods when their battery died. (Still looking for a decent replacement -- I unfortunately cannot use the kind that has those rubber seal plug things, I must have the hard plastic style like the non-pro Airpods)
- dylanrw 6y ago
  All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high. Most USB-C sockets I can find are waterproof only with a matching cable plugged in.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high. Also accessories. Sure there's a sunk costs fallacy component to it, but still: it wasn't that long ago that apple users needed to replace all their ADC accessories with lightning ones.
    - afavour 6y ago
      There’s such a long tail of it, too: I still see ADC connectors in hotel room phone docks, etc.
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    All of the Android phones with USB C and high IP ratings makes that seem unlikely.
  - bluejekyll 6y ago
    Before USB-C I would have agreed about giving them the benefit of doubt the doubt. But as a sibling comment pointed out, they have an iPad model that is USB-C, my hope is that means the entire line of products will switch over. I’m actually guessing that they have a long tail of hardware designs that all need to be changed, and that process takes a while. Even their new headphones are lightning based, though they were under development for 4 years... that’s as far as I’ll give them.
- babypuncher 6y ago
  I think it is because they had already built out a lightning ecosystem years before USB-C came and mostly solved the same problem lightning did. This left Apple in a weird spot. They could keep the iPhone on Lightning and users could continue using the same cables and peripherals they have been since 2012. Or, they could switch. This would require many users to buy new accessories, but they could be generics that work with any phone. The switch from Lightning to USB-C is not as advantageous as the switch from the old 30-pin connector to Lightning was. To users already invested in the Apple/Lightning ecosystem, a switch to USB-C would not bring much benefit.
- gumby 6y ago
  > Apple... committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. Ipad pro and the new ipad air have a type C connector. My phone and watch use cables that plug into the same Type C brick I use for my Mac. But nitpicking examples aside I agree that they should ditch lightning. It's still entrenched for all the other devices.
- grishka 6y ago
  What's funnier is that Apple already has an iOS device that has USB-C for its main port, the iPad Pro. So I'd presume most of the engineering work to get rid of Lightning completely has already been done at this point. On Switch, I did charge mine from a powerbank with a USB-A to USB-C cable, it did work but there clearly wasn't enough power. The battery kept draining but very slowly.
- dippersauce 6y ago
  Part of me thinks they may intend to get rid of the physical ports altogether on the iPhone. This would serve to differentiate the "productive" iPad from iPhone, and allow them to scratch that minimalist itch they get every once in a while.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
Huh. I think that's a good thing. Slow charging is better than a dead battery and unusable device. My work HP laptop has USB-C charging but won't charge at all without PD. I tried it with a USB-A - C cable and a fairly hefty adapter without PD.

bluejekyll 6y ago

Yes, Apple seems to be very confused in this regard. They’ve committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. It’s hard not to be annoyed at them about this. Enough to not buy Apple again? No, not yet, but I’d be lying if it’s not a reason why I’ve delayed purchasing a new device. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and makes me grumpy. So I’ll wait to upgrade to the last moment. On a similar note, it seems Nintendo with the switch has hobbled USB-C in some way that standard equipment won’t work with it, like charging over generic USB-C, is this accurate? Has Sony similarly hobbled the spec for PS4/5?

robin_reala 6y ago
Not for all their portable devices; the iPad Pros have been USB-C since 2018, and the iPad Air since September this year.
- bluejekyll 6y ago
  Ah, thanks. I actually totally forgot about. Maybe I should get one now (2 years later) to help spur them on.
eru 6y ago
I can charge my Switch on random USB-C power sources. (No clue whether it's as effective as the included charger, but certainly works well enough.)
- bluejekyll 6y ago
  That’s good to hear? I think I was seeing issues with that on some of my chargers, maybe I need to double check the power ratings on the bricks.
breakfastduck 6y ago
I think they're keeping lightening to help their 'eco' brand. They just removed chargers from the iPhone box because 'everyone has one' - if they suddenly changed to USB-C on iPhone it would create a LOT of ewaste. I still think they should switch, but I reckon it's because they'd get accused of hypocrisy if they deprecated it.
- tjoff 6y ago
  Even apple chargers are regular USB at the charger-end, right? Just include a cable then, problem solved. Or the apple way: an adapter.
  - chrisfinazzo 6y ago
    Most of them, anyway. I've been putting an Apple Watch SE through its initial paces over the past week and was mildly disappointed to find that only Series 6 ship with a Type C cable in the box - the SE uses Type A. The same split is true for iPhone 12 Pro, so far as I can tell, even though (curiously) my 11 Pro from last year did include a 20W Type C Power Adapter in the box.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  They could just as easily spin it as “Now you can use the charger from your macbook, meaning only one cable!” Or, if they want to get really wild: they can openly talk about the other usb-c devices that you might have.
nfriedly 6y ago
As I understand it, Nintendo didn't intentionally hobble their USB-C port, they just screwed up the Power Delivery implementation. (And didn't care enough to fix it.) Some chargers are tolerant of Nintendo's mistakes, others aren't.
- bluefirex 6y ago
  The dock uses a non-standard implementation of USB-PD, the Switch itself can charge just fine with just about any charger, though. As I understood it, the dock randomly switches between different voltages depending on load, while portable mode uses plain old USB-PD with a consistent charge. While you can use the dock with Apple's 61W charger, it's not really recommended, since it can still get bricked with a software update. The 87W/96W charger isn't safe for the dock at all.
bluefirex 6y ago
USB-C is now a requirement for me to upgrade my iPhone. I'm holding onto my XS until they switch to that.
- bochoh 6y ago
  I think we’re more likely to see a port-less (read MagSafe only) iPhone sooner than a USB-C version. I will say the iPad Pro with USB-C was a revelation for usability though. Not to mention companies like Flir being able to create one product line.
  - bluejekyll 6y ago
    I don’t know about that. The physical port is still useful for hard resets and management of a “bricked” device (granted I’ve only needed that on an older device, and never on the model I currently have).
    - yellow_postit 6y ago
      Does Apple still get a cut in lightning licensing? If so I think they will move engineering heaven and earth to avoid losing that revenue stream so also agree with the above poster that I’d put money on moving to the wireless.
      - quesera 6y ago
        That's absurd. There is zero possibility that third-party licensing income for the Lightning port standard is a consideration in any engineering decisions at Apple.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Apple could keep around a hidden diagnostic port, like they do on Apple Watch and HomePod.
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  The lack of USB-C is the reason I didn't replace my Airpods with more Airpods when their battery died. (Still looking for a decent replacement -- I unfortunately cannot use the kind that has those rubber seal plug things, I must have the hard plastic style like the non-pro Airpods)
dylanrw 6y ago
All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high. Most USB-C sockets I can find are waterproof only with a matching cable plugged in.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > All these complex theories/complaints about lightning. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, one good reason for not shifting to USB-C is to keep IP ratings high. Also accessories. Sure there's a sunk costs fallacy component to it, but still: it wasn't that long ago that apple users needed to replace all their ADC accessories with lightning ones.
  - afavour 6y ago
    There’s such a long tail of it, too: I still see ADC connectors in hotel room phone docks, etc.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  All of the Android phones with USB C and high IP ratings makes that seem unlikely.
- bluejekyll 6y ago
  Before USB-C I would have agreed about giving them the benefit of doubt the doubt. But as a sibling comment pointed out, they have an iPad model that is USB-C, my hope is that means the entire line of products will switch over. I’m actually guessing that they have a long tail of hardware designs that all need to be changed, and that process takes a while. Even their new headphones are lightning based, though they were under development for 4 years... that’s as far as I’ll give them.
babypuncher 6y ago
I think it is because they had already built out a lightning ecosystem years before USB-C came and mostly solved the same problem lightning did. This left Apple in a weird spot. They could keep the iPhone on Lightning and users could continue using the same cables and peripherals they have been since 2012. Or, they could switch. This would require many users to buy new accessories, but they could be generics that work with any phone. The switch from Lightning to USB-C is not as advantageous as the switch from the old 30-pin connector to Lightning was. To users already invested in the Apple/Lightning ecosystem, a switch to USB-C would not bring much benefit.
gumby 6y ago
> Apple... committed to USB-C for all of their computers, but then are continuing to push lightning for all the other portable devices. Ipad pro and the new ipad air have a type C connector. My phone and watch use cables that plug into the same Type C brick I use for my Mac. But nitpicking examples aside I agree that they should ditch lightning. It's still entrenched for all the other devices.
grishka 6y ago
What's funnier is that Apple already has an iOS device that has USB-C for its main port, the iPad Pro. So I'd presume most of the engineering work to get rid of Lightning completely has already been done at this point. On Switch, I did charge mine from a powerbank with a USB-A to USB-C cable, it did work but there clearly wasn't enough power. The battery kept draining but very slowly.
dippersauce 6y ago
Part of me thinks they may intend to get rid of the physical ports altogether on the iPhone. This would serve to differentiate the "productive" iPad from iPhone, and allow them to scratch that minimalist itch they get every once in a while.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

Huh. I think that's a good thing. Slow charging is better than a dead battery and unusable device. My work HP laptop has USB-C charging but won't charge at all without PD. I tried it with a USB-A - C cable and a fairly hefty adapter without PD.