4 ms·

How does UBI work with different costs of living? Do city dwellers get more than rural folk?

mantas 6y ago
Also, how does UBI work with different life circumstances. Does a disabled person get extra to cover wheelchair maintenance? Does allergic person gets more to afford allergy-OK food? Does woman get more to cover pads/tampons?
- refurb 6y ago
  Not sure why you’re downvoted. Completely reasonable question. Not everyone has the same needs. So UBI either has to be so high that everyone can have a basic standard of living (e.g. a nurse for a disabled person) or you retain a plethora of other social programs to address those needs. And I always ask - what about the drug addict that blows through their whole UBI on day 2? What then? Let them starve in the street? Of course not, there will be a separate social program for them as well.
- username90 6y ago
  > Does woman get more to cover pads/tampons? Not sure why people repeat this so much when men's extra need for calories to fuel their larger bodies greatly outweighs that.
  - mantas 6y ago
    A tall woman needs as much as a tiny man. Should UBI account for body mass? What should it do with underweight or overweight people then? :)
    - username90 6y ago
      I don't think UBI should take anything into account, no, but an average man needs more money than an average woman. That some women needs more than some men doesn't really matter, women arguing that they as a group need more money than men is nonsense.
      - mantas 6y ago
        You'll have to drop all historical and societal context for that. Get X peas per kilo of body weight, a piece of a cloth to wrap yourself and you're good to go...
- scotty79 6y ago
  It's just fixed amount of money that may or may not cover for your specific needs and preferences. Variability in those needs are taken care of outside of UBI. You can still have a separate funds for medical equipment and you can still have prices of pads subsidized by goverment to promote hygiene.
  - mantas 6y ago
    The original idea of UBI was to drop all welfare apparatus, add saved moneys to welfare budget and then give it away equally. But now it's turning into a beast that doesn't remove much of existing complexity and adds additional welfare. Money source for a meaningful payout be damned.
    - scotty79 6y ago
      You can drop a lot of means tested support for the poor. But I don't think it was to abolish all welfare for special needs groups.
      - mantas 6y ago
        The very initial idea in libertarian circles was to abolish literally all welfare. The problem is once you start looking into leaving safety nets, bureaucracy is no longer reduced and budget savings no longer happen. Then you need to find a ton fo extra €€€€ to fund UBI. Suddenly „yay no nanny state“ becomes „yay more taxes“...
Ekaros 6y ago
And should they? Or is it reasonable to expect that those unable to work temporarily move to some low/reasonable cost area of living? Or find solution sufficient solution with the ubi they get.
- eecc 6y ago
  That’s problematic. You don’t just move your residence on a whim like it’s picking a different pair of socks on an online store. In EU at least, people tend to hold onto their network more strongly and uprooting is a highly stressful and somewhat traumatic experience. Not to mention that moving in a “cheaper area” reduces opportunities and becomes an income local minimum you can’t escape that easily. I don’t have an answer or know better...
  - refurb 6y ago
    Let the tweaking of UBI begin! Give it a decade or so and it will look like any other social program. An army of bureaucrats to manage a complex system.
  - username90 6y ago
    The duality of UBI discussions: > UBI will make people stop working, why work when you can get money for free? > I wouldn't be able to live the luxurious life I lived as a worker if I went on UBI, how is that fair?
    - eecc 6y ago
      Uhm, no. Those are two straw man arguments that don’t help the discussion.
akvadrako 6y ago
Surely they shouldn't. One of the expected positive outcomes from UBI is people will move out of cities to rural areas where it's cheaper. Right now that's hard to do because all the economic activity is in cities. But when a baseline of economic activity follows people anywhere it'll help revive less successful areas, where that UBI goes a longer way.

Also, how does UBI work with different life circumstances. Does a disabled person get extra to cover wheelchair maintenance? Does allergic person gets more to afford allergy-OK food? Does woman get more to cover pads/tampons?

refurb 6y ago
Not sure why you’re downvoted. Completely reasonable question. Not everyone has the same needs. So UBI either has to be so high that everyone can have a basic standard of living (e.g. a nurse for a disabled person) or you retain a plethora of other social programs to address those needs. And I always ask - what about the drug addict that blows through their whole UBI on day 2? What then? Let them starve in the street? Of course not, there will be a separate social program for them as well.
username90 6y ago
> Does woman get more to cover pads/tampons? Not sure why people repeat this so much when men's extra need for calories to fuel their larger bodies greatly outweighs that.
- mantas 6y ago
  A tall woman needs as much as a tiny man. Should UBI account for body mass? What should it do with underweight or overweight people then? :)
  - username90 6y ago
    I don't think UBI should take anything into account, no, but an average man needs more money than an average woman. That some women needs more than some men doesn't really matter, women arguing that they as a group need more money than men is nonsense.
    - mantas 6y ago
      You'll have to drop all historical and societal context for that. Get X peas per kilo of body weight, a piece of a cloth to wrap yourself and you're good to go...
scotty79 6y ago
It's just fixed amount of money that may or may not cover for your specific needs and preferences. Variability in those needs are taken care of outside of UBI. You can still have a separate funds for medical equipment and you can still have prices of pads subsidized by goverment to promote hygiene.
- mantas 6y ago
  The original idea of UBI was to drop all welfare apparatus, add saved moneys to welfare budget and then give it away equally. But now it's turning into a beast that doesn't remove much of existing complexity and adds additional welfare. Money source for a meaningful payout be damned.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    You can drop a lot of means tested support for the poor. But I don't think it was to abolish all welfare for special needs groups.
    - mantas 6y ago
      The very initial idea in libertarian circles was to abolish literally all welfare. The problem is once you start looking into leaving safety nets, bureaucracy is no longer reduced and budget savings no longer happen. Then you need to find a ton fo extra €€€€ to fund UBI. Suddenly „yay no nanny state“ becomes „yay more taxes“...

Ekaros 6y ago

And should they? Or is it reasonable to expect that those unable to work temporarily move to some low/reasonable cost area of living? Or find solution sufficient solution with the ubi they get.

eecc 6y ago
That’s problematic. You don’t just move your residence on a whim like it’s picking a different pair of socks on an online store. In EU at least, people tend to hold onto their network more strongly and uprooting is a highly stressful and somewhat traumatic experience. Not to mention that moving in a “cheaper area” reduces opportunities and becomes an income local minimum you can’t escape that easily. I don’t have an answer or know better...
- refurb 6y ago
  Let the tweaking of UBI begin! Give it a decade or so and it will look like any other social program. An army of bureaucrats to manage a complex system.
- username90 6y ago
  The duality of UBI discussions: > UBI will make people stop working, why work when you can get money for free? > I wouldn't be able to live the luxurious life I lived as a worker if I went on UBI, how is that fair?
  - eecc 6y ago
    Uhm, no. Those are two straw man arguments that don’t help the discussion.

akvadrako 6y ago

Surely they shouldn't. One of the expected positive outcomes from UBI is people will move out of cities to rural areas where it's cheaper. Right now that's hard to do because all the economic activity is in cities. But when a baseline of economic activity follows people anywhere it'll help revive less successful areas, where that UBI goes a longer way.