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> EDIT: The mRNA vaccines are obviously not therapeutic antibodies, but they probably checked for cross-reactivity of the engineered spike protein as well as th

by tn890 6y ago

> EDIT: The mRNA vaccines are obviously not therapeutic antibodies, but they probably checked for cross-reactivity of the engineered spike protein as well as the generated antibodies using similar methods. I’m not 100% sure, though. There is a study[0] showing cross-reactivity between SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and other human tissues, thus predisposing the host to autoimmune diseases. This should apply even more so to any vaccine since vaccines produce a more robust immune response. Phase 2/3 of Pfizer-BioNTech did, however, include people with autoimmune diseases [1]. Other vaccine trials did not, as far as I am aware. This does not really shine a light on pre-disposition to an autoimmune disease 6-9-12 mo down the road. Reading this comment again before I post made me realize it sounds very gloomy, so I feel obliged to say I'll be getting whatever vaccine I can get my hands on at the soonest possible date. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7246018/#__ffn_sectitle https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7246018/#__ffn_... [1] https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

flobosg 6y ago
Thank you for the links! Here’s a review about autoimmunity in COVID-19: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841120301281#sectitle0075 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089684112... > There is a study[0] showing cross-reactivity between SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and other human tissues, thus predisposing the host to autoimmune diseases. This should apply even more so to any vaccine since vaccines produce a more robust immune response. Since the antibody tested in the study was a commercial, monoclonal one, this is somewhat hard to assess. But I think you’re right given what they found in the blood tests. > This does not really shine a light on pre-disposition to an autoimmune disease 6-9-12 mo down the road. Autoimmune reactions should happen in the short run, right?
- tn890 6y ago
  >Autoimmune reactions should happen in the short run, right? I believe Pandermix took 6 months for narcolepsy to develop.
  - toabi 6y ago
    According to https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033536 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjourn... the onset judged by "first contact to health care" was much earlier.
    - flobosg 6y ago
      There seems to be an early-onset but also long-standing effect, maybe due to circulating antibodies inducing the autoimmune response over time.
      - zilian 6y ago
        This does not make sense to me. Your own antibodies triggering an autoimmune response ?
  - learc83 6y ago
    The important to thing to realize about Pandermix was that the rate of people impact was so small that even if we followed 50k phase 3 participants over 10 years, we wouldn't have uncovered the issue. The narcolepsy issue was never going to be uncovered before it was rolled out large scale.
petra 6y ago
Why would you take the vaccine at the first chance you get ? what's the risk-benefit calculation you see in front of your eyes ?
- peterlk 6y ago
  Not OP, but I feel similarly. I'm going to go get the vaccine as soon as I can because what's the alternative? I want to go to concerts and travel again. If I don't get the vaccine my choices are: 1) not care and probably get COVID-19, which has a chance of developing the same autoimmune issues that have been discussed 2) hide in my room for another unspecified length of time. It is at this point that I remind myself of all the other dangerous things that I do: driving, motorcycling, rock climbing, skiing, etc. The risk of long term side effects is worth the benefit of spinning up the global economy again.

by tn890 6y ago

flobosg 6y ago

Thank you for the links! Here’s a review about autoimmunity in COVID-19: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841120301281#sectitle0075 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089684112... > There is a study[0] showing cross-reactivity between SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and other human tissues, thus predisposing the host to autoimmune diseases. This should apply even more so to any vaccine since vaccines produce a more robust immune response. Since the antibody tested in the study was a commercial, monoclonal one, this is somewhat hard to assess. But I think you’re right given what they found in the blood tests. > This does not really shine a light on pre-disposition to an autoimmune disease 6-9-12 mo down the road. Autoimmune reactions should happen in the short run, right?

tn890 6y ago
>Autoimmune reactions should happen in the short run, right? I believe Pandermix took 6 months for narcolepsy to develop.
- toabi 6y ago
  According to https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033536 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjourn... the onset judged by "first contact to health care" was much earlier.
  - flobosg 6y ago
    There seems to be an early-onset but also long-standing effect, maybe due to circulating antibodies inducing the autoimmune response over time.
    - zilian 6y ago
      This does not make sense to me. Your own antibodies triggering an autoimmune response ?
- learc83 6y ago
  The important to thing to realize about Pandermix was that the rate of people impact was so small that even if we followed 50k phase 3 participants over 10 years, we wouldn't have uncovered the issue. The narcolepsy issue was never going to be uncovered before it was rolled out large scale.

petra 6y ago

Why would you take the vaccine at the first chance you get ? what's the risk-benefit calculation you see in front of your eyes ?

peterlk 6y ago
Not OP, but I feel similarly. I'm going to go get the vaccine as soon as I can because what's the alternative? I want to go to concerts and travel again. If I don't get the vaccine my choices are: 1) not care and probably get COVID-19, which has a chance of developing the same autoimmune issues that have been discussed 2) hide in my room for another unspecified length of time. It is at this point that I remind myself of all the other dangerous things that I do: driving, motorcycling, rock climbing, skiing, etc. The risk of long term side effects is worth the benefit of spinning up the global economy again.