3 ms·

I don't think a new social network should be centralized. what the world really needs is a user-friendly interface for urbit

by zelly 6y ago

nobody9999 6y ago
>I don't think a new social network should be centralized. what the world really needs is a user-friendly interface for urbit And without the pyramid scheme[0] aspect of urbit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
- flancian 6y ago
  To be clear, the Agora is not a centralized network. Its architecture is very simple but it's already decentralized; users keep full control of their data. I also intend to evolve it in the direction of a fully distributed system. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25581127 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25581127 for more :)
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >To be clear, the Agora is not a centralized network. I'd read the comment you linked and am aware of that. My comment was addressed to the poster to whom I replied. Agora seems interesting, although I think the requirement for external dependencies (a git repository) makes it less viable as a platform. I get that it's necessary to have standardized formats for data -- especially in a decentralized environment. I also get that markdown/git is a ready resource for that. However, it seems to me that unless one is willing (and able) to set up their own git repository/server on their own (physical, VPS or cloud) hardware, you're getting decentralization of Agora on the back of centralized git platforms -- which kind of defeats the point of a decentralized platform. Unless your only target set of users are developers and other technical people with the resources to host their own git instances, forcing the use of git repositories will limit both interest and adoption. Removing such a requirement (or baking git into the platform) would go a long way toward making Agora more attractive, IMHO. I am most certainly not trying to discourage anyone from using Agora, nor do I think it's a bad idea. In fact, I think it's quite interesting. Thank you for working on this and I wish you much success with it!
    - flancian 6y ago
      My apologies, my comment should have been attached to the parent :) Thank you for your comment! I agree with, well, all of it -- as it stands now the Agora is decentralized only for users that can control their own infrastructure; and is indeed usable at all only by users with a certain degree of technical know how. I intend to do what I can to fix this and make the Agora [[maximally inclusive]] -- it is not arcane as a design principle, but rather due to limitations of the current implementation. Put another way, I consider the current implementation just an MVP that might allow us to test some interesting hypotheses and perhaps bootstrap a more inclusive distributed architecture. https://anagora.org/node/maximally-inclusive https://anagora.org/node/maximally-inclusive
- zelly 6y ago
  someone has to pay to keep machines running and urbit's game theory is the only tractable one. you could either be a chattel slave farming sponsored content clicks in perpetuity (a la fb and twitter) or you could be mooching off someone running a site out of generosity (a la activitypub). urbit is an alternative to both of those.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >someone has to pay to keep machines running and urbit's game theory is the only tractable one. Do they? Why? What physical law requires this?
    - zelly 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#Second_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#Second_Law

I don't think a new social network should be centralized. what the world really needs is a user-friendly interface for urbit

by zelly 6y ago

I don't think a new social network should be centralized. what the world really needs is a user-friendly interface for urbit

nobody9999 6y ago

>I don't think a new social network should be centralized. what the world really needs is a user-friendly interface for urbit And without the pyramid scheme[0] aspect of urbit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

flancian 6y ago
To be clear, the Agora is not a centralized network. Its architecture is very simple but it's already decentralized; users keep full control of their data. I also intend to evolve it in the direction of a fully distributed system. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25581127 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25581127 for more :)
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >To be clear, the Agora is not a centralized network. I'd read the comment you linked and am aware of that. My comment was addressed to the poster to whom I replied. Agora seems interesting, although I think the requirement for external dependencies (a git repository) makes it less viable as a platform. I get that it's necessary to have standardized formats for data -- especially in a decentralized environment. I also get that markdown/git is a ready resource for that. However, it seems to me that unless one is willing (and able) to set up their own git repository/server on their own (physical, VPS or cloud) hardware, you're getting decentralization of Agora on the back of centralized git platforms -- which kind of defeats the point of a decentralized platform. Unless your only target set of users are developers and other technical people with the resources to host their own git instances, forcing the use of git repositories will limit both interest and adoption. Removing such a requirement (or baking git into the platform) would go a long way toward making Agora more attractive, IMHO. I am most certainly not trying to discourage anyone from using Agora, nor do I think it's a bad idea. In fact, I think it's quite interesting. Thank you for working on this and I wish you much success with it!
  - flancian 6y ago
    My apologies, my comment should have been attached to the parent :) Thank you for your comment! I agree with, well, all of it -- as it stands now the Agora is decentralized only for users that can control their own infrastructure; and is indeed usable at all only by users with a certain degree of technical know how. I intend to do what I can to fix this and make the Agora [[maximally inclusive]] -- it is not arcane as a design principle, but rather due to limitations of the current implementation. Put another way, I consider the current implementation just an MVP that might allow us to test some interesting hypotheses and perhaps bootstrap a more inclusive distributed architecture. https://anagora.org/node/maximally-inclusive https://anagora.org/node/maximally-inclusive
zelly 6y ago
someone has to pay to keep machines running and urbit's game theory is the only tractable one. you could either be a chattel slave farming sponsored content clicks in perpetuity (a la fb and twitter) or you could be mooching off someone running a site out of generosity (a la activitypub). urbit is an alternative to both of those.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >someone has to pay to keep machines running and urbit's game theory is the only tractable one. Do they? Why? What physical law requires this?
  - zelly 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#Second_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics#Second_Law