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>Governments in most western countries have thrown out habeas corpus and have given themselves the right to indefinitely ‘disappear’ anyone they arbitrarily dee
by jjeaff 6y ago
>Governments in most western countries have thrown out habeas corpus and have given themselves the right to indefinitely ‘disappear’ anyone they arbitrarily deem a threat to national security. Julian Assange and Edward Snowden come to mind.
Neither of those seem to be examples of habeas corpus being thrown out. Neither were "disappeared" and the court systems were used against Assange and nothing has happened to Snowden as of yet except for the legal system being used to try to keep him from earning money from his book.
- secfirstmd 6y agoWhoa that's a bit of a US Centric broad brush there. "Most Western Countries" - there's more to the West than the US, UK and less than half a dozenish who have or are doing that. I'm Irish and the vast majority of the EU and other Western Countries (however that is defined) aren't in the business of disappearing people.
- peteretep 6y ago> I'm Irish and the vast majority of the EU and other Western Countries (however that is defined) aren't in the business of disappearing people. How would you know? The point of disappearing people is that they disappear, and you don't know how.
- dash2 6y agoThe OP’s claim was that governments have given themselves the right to disappear people. That’s a legal change which couldn’t be done without the standard public process. Also, in general, when people are arbitrarily detained or disappeared, the outside world does hear about it, even in highly authoritarian regimes (see eg the Amnesty website for plenty of examples).
- StreamBright 6y agoUS agencies operate in "Most Western Countries". - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44313905 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44313905 - https://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+IM-PRESS+20060626BKG09303+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN https://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP/... - https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812499752/uncovering-the-cias-audacious-operation-that-gave-them-access-to-state-secrets?t=1609314691962 https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812499752/uncovering-the-cias... - https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/death-athens-rogue-nsa-operation/ https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/death-athens-rogue-nsa-o...
- jeswin 6y ago> I'm Irish and the vast majority of the EU and other Western Countries (however that is defined) aren't in the business of disappearing people. True, but that's comparable only if these countries had the same responsibilities (it's like comparing people, say a soldier vs a librarian). Ireland for instance has no Air Force, and has to call on the RAF to provide air defence (as it happened when Russian Tu-95s intruded). Likewise, the rest of Europe relies entirely on NATO's firepower against Russian belligerence. You can certainly shape a better society internally and have equitable social justice if you're free from the distraction of having to defend against external aggression.
- tarruda 6y ago> Likewise, the rest of Europe relies entirely on NATO's firepower against Russian belligerence. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by "Russian belligerence"? Do you have some example of Europe relying on NATO's firepower against it?
- hkt 6y agoNATO is seen as a deterrent to Russian expansion into the old Soviet territories as some of the states that are now democracies have joined NATO. In the absence of a European defence infrastructure like NATO that's pretty much all they have. Russian belligerence being invading the Baltic states. Crimea and eastern Ukraine were less clear cut than supposed for historical reasons but many in the East live in fear of the same happening to them.
- onethought 6y agoBut how is NATO not a military force? It’s kind of equivalent to the US military (except it includes them)... EU is similar to United States. Both are unions of independent states
- kolp 6y agoIreland does have an Air Force, called the Irish Air Corps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Air_Corps
- earnubs 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappeared_(Northern_Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappeared_(Northern_Ireland)
- secfirstmd 6y agoEh yes that's the UK as I mentioned.
- earnubs 6y agoThe people doing the dissappearing were from Ireland though.