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> The new nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccines are chemicals that have been almost fully disclosed. They incorporate a trinucleotide cap 1 analog ((m27,3′-O)Gppp(m
by aazaa 6y ago
> The new nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccines are chemicals that have been almost fully disclosed. They incorporate a trinucleotide cap 1 analog ((m27,3′-O)Gppp(m2′-O)ApG), contain N1-methylpseudouridine instead of uridine, and encode an optimized (P2-mutated) full-length S glycoprotein encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles (LNPs) containing polyethylene glycol and cholesterol. The BNT162b2 LNP also contains (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate) and 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, whereas Moderna’s LNP contains SM-102 (most likely heptadecan-9-yl 8-((2-hydroxyethyl)(6-oxo-6-(undecyloxy)hexyl)amino)octanoate) and 1,2-dimyristoyl-rac-glycero-3-methoxypolyethylene glycol-2000 (PEG). ...
I'll disagree here. Imagine I tell you a white powder of pure molecular composition is made up of just four elements: carbon; hydrogen; nitrogen; and oxygen. Would you ingest it?
It could be strychnine (poison) or glycine (an amino acid). You have no way of knowing.
Likewise, the physiological effects lipid nanoparticles (LNPs) are still mysterious. First, the exact composition isn't known or even revealed in the FDA filing (thus the "most likely" above). Second, even given known composition, there's no way to know how large, how stable, or how aggregated these particles are or what any of that means.
The model for LNPs that gets most widely discussed is an artificial cell membrane. There's a water-filled center surrounded by a bilayer of lipid (grease). These particles may show variable sensitivity to degradation depending on how administered, composition, size, shape, trace impurities, and so on. For example, Moderna's vaccine contains cholesterol, presumably for the same reason our cells do - to modulate membrane fluidity. It's not clear just yet how persistent LNPs might be and what effects they might show, separate from the RNA payload.
- maxerickson 6y agoHaven't the companies producing them been studying things like stability? You say 'there's no way to know how large, how stable, or how aggregated these particles are or what any of that means', but they have been working with them for years. Of course they could be lying or hiding information, but it seems like researching them is a way to know things about them.
- aazaa 6y ago> ... but they have been working with them for years. True - in vitro and in limited human studies. But not at scale in human subjects. That's just this year. Studying this kind of thing is new as far as therapeutics go.
- djsumdog 6y agoThis is a good, detailed comment. It's so difficult to find good, detailed information, about the mechanics of this new vaccine. Thanks for writing it.
- scotty79 6y agoThat's really outrageous analogy. Rearranging and interacting with droplets of PEG and cholsterol can't possiby have effect anywhere close to carefully and deliberatly arranging atoms into molecules in various ways to get different compounds.