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Even prior to the pandemic, real wages were stagnant for decades. Wealth inequality has been a growing problem since before many of us have been alive, at this

Even prior to the pandemic, real wages were stagnant for decades. Wealth inequality has been a growing problem since before many of us have been alive, at this point. We are definitely making progress in absolute terms, but there is plenty of good reason to be concerned about the benefits spreading in general, and particularly when we're talking about technologies to replace labor.

mattmcknight 6y ago
>Even prior to the pandemic, real wages were stagnant for decades. This is not true from a global perspective. In addition, there has been significant immigration, where people are are entering the economy at the bottom (increasing inequality in a country, while they are making more than they would where they came from). This is not to say things couldn't be better, but the economy is global, and nationalistic perspectives presume a closed system.
- Retric 6y ago
  Any data on this? It’s true for many individual countries, but global population growth has been dominated by poor countries for a while which should dramatically drag down wage percentiles. In the last 30 years UK’s population for example is up 19% where India’s is up 58%.
  - dash2 6y ago
    Google “elephant graph” or go to ourworldindata and you should find it. Population growth has been dominated by income increases. The average person in China in particular got much richer.
    - Judgmentality 6y ago
      https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16868838/elephant-graph-chart-global-inequality-economic-growth https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16868838/el... I'd never heard of this before. This is the most interesting thing I learned today. Thank you.
    - Retric 6y ago
      Interesting that 0% growth at the 80th percentile and minimal growth at 90% is exactly the stagnation I was expecting. Though, sub 50% growth from 1980-2016 for the 60th to 95th percentile is more interesting. With the top 1% capturing 26% of all growth and the top 0.01% having 200+% growth. It’s clear arbitrary starting and end points can shift these graphs around dramatically. Ending now is probably going to make a graph like this look really bad.
  - sdenton4 6y ago
    Hans Rosling's work is all about the reasons for long term optimism. With lots of stats. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We're_Wrong_About_the_World_%E2%80%93_and_Why_Things_Are_Better_Than_You_Think https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We'...
fermienrico 6y ago
Agreed about fixing wages. I’m left-centrist and I find some of the extreme Marxism after the pandemic concerning. That’s what I’m rebutting against. I’m strongly against UBI, but I want high taxes for anyone making over $X. X is open for debate. I’d like temporary UBI (6 months, that’s what we have currently with unemployment benefits) + free apprenticeship like training so people can get back on employment. UBI is a bad idea IMO. Imagine losing your job as a waitress but you can learn electronics, perhaps get a technician job with government’s help.
- Guthur 6y ago
  And it'll make no difference, all these wealthy don't have salary to tax or often time even cash, it's quite often wrapped up in the companies they've started or made super successful. This is the point that seems so blatantly missed. Increasing taxes shouldn't be the one jerk reaction because there is scant evidence that governments are remotely effective at using the money we already give them hand over fist. I suppose they do keep droves of civil servants employed, but make of that what you will. During covid we should have made it far more easy for small businesses to survive by cutting they're tax burden, the healthy would have had a chance to flourish and the already weak businesses would still fall to the wayside. Instead we'll handed money out to people who will many times buy the next Samsung, Apple Amazon whatever feeding the big corps that everyone here loves to hate. It's so obvious that this is what happens that i can't understand how so many can be wilfully blind to it.
  - Guthur 6y ago
    Also the reason the poorer get taxed so disproportionately is because much of the tax system is regressive with elements like sales tax and stamp duty. The government certainly has the power to fix this, but not by stealing more but fixing the blatantly broken system
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Loss making businesses usually pay no tax, so how are you going to reduce their tax burden? > healthy would have had a chance to flourish There can be no healthy hospitality businesses during the pandemic.

mattmcknight 6y ago

>Even prior to the pandemic, real wages were stagnant for decades. This is not true from a global perspective. In addition, there has been significant immigration, where people are are entering the economy at the bottom (increasing inequality in a country, while they are making more than they would where they came from). This is not to say things couldn't be better, but the economy is global, and nationalistic perspectives presume a closed system.

Retric 6y ago
Any data on this? It’s true for many individual countries, but global population growth has been dominated by poor countries for a while which should dramatically drag down wage percentiles. In the last 30 years UK’s population for example is up 19% where India’s is up 58%.
- dash2 6y ago
  Google “elephant graph” or go to ourworldindata and you should find it. Population growth has been dominated by income increases. The average person in China in particular got much richer.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16868838/elephant-graph-chart-global-inequality-economic-growth https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16868838/el... I'd never heard of this before. This is the most interesting thing I learned today. Thank you.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Interesting that 0% growth at the 80th percentile and minimal growth at 90% is exactly the stagnation I was expecting. Though, sub 50% growth from 1980-2016 for the 60th to 95th percentile is more interesting. With the top 1% capturing 26% of all growth and the top 0.01% having 200+% growth. It’s clear arbitrary starting and end points can shift these graphs around dramatically. Ending now is probably going to make a graph like this look really bad.
- sdenton4 6y ago
  Hans Rosling's work is all about the reasons for long term optimism. With lots of stats. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We're_Wrong_About_the_World_%E2%80%93_and_Why_Things_Are_Better_Than_You_Think https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We'...

fermienrico 6y ago

Agreed about fixing wages. I’m left-centrist and I find some of the extreme Marxism after the pandemic concerning. That’s what I’m rebutting against. I’m strongly against UBI, but I want high taxes for anyone making over $X. X is open for debate. I’d like temporary UBI (6 months, that’s what we have currently with unemployment benefits) + free apprenticeship like training so people can get back on employment. UBI is a bad idea IMO. Imagine losing your job as a waitress but you can learn electronics, perhaps get a technician job with government’s help.

Guthur 6y ago
And it'll make no difference, all these wealthy don't have salary to tax or often time even cash, it's quite often wrapped up in the companies they've started or made super successful. This is the point that seems so blatantly missed. Increasing taxes shouldn't be the one jerk reaction because there is scant evidence that governments are remotely effective at using the money we already give them hand over fist. I suppose they do keep droves of civil servants employed, but make of that what you will. During covid we should have made it far more easy for small businesses to survive by cutting they're tax burden, the healthy would have had a chance to flourish and the already weak businesses would still fall to the wayside. Instead we'll handed money out to people who will many times buy the next Samsung, Apple Amazon whatever feeding the big corps that everyone here loves to hate. It's so obvious that this is what happens that i can't understand how so many can be wilfully blind to it.
- Guthur 6y ago
  Also the reason the poorer get taxed so disproportionately is because much of the tax system is regressive with elements like sales tax and stamp duty. The government certainly has the power to fix this, but not by stealing more but fixing the blatantly broken system
- pjc50 6y ago
  Loss making businesses usually pay no tax, so how are you going to reduce their tax burden? > healthy would have had a chance to flourish There can be no healthy hospitality businesses during the pandemic.