4 ms·

Oh yeah, these companies are totally doing this for the public good and not just simply exploiting cheap labor. And considering how hard it is for an ex con to

Oh yeah, these companies are totally doing this for the public good and not just simply exploiting cheap labor. And considering how hard it is for an ex con to get a job, I doubt this has any major impact on recidivism.

Alupis 6y ago
That is a debate worth having - but calling cheaply paid prison labor "Slave Labor", or equivocating it to Chinese Forced Labor Camps is disingenuous and dishonest. They are flatly not the same, even if you believe it's debatably exploitive.
- arentyouspecial 6y ago
  Considering the rise of convict leasing programs across the south after the passing of the 13th amendment, I’d say there was very little difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_leasing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_leasing
  - Alupis 6y ago
    > The practice peaked around 1880, was formally outlawed by the last state (Alabama) in 1928, and persisted in various forms until it was abolished by President Franklin D. Roosevelt via Francis Biddle's "Circular 3591" of December 12, 1941. You use something that was ended (because people thought it was wrong!) nearly a century ago as supporting evidence for what exactly?
    - arentyouspecial 6y ago
      It wouldn’t be like paying prisoners literal pennies is a way of getting around the law that made convict leasing illegal.
      - Alupis 6y ago
        Convict Leasing is different, and people felt strongly enough that it was bad that the laws were changed (nearly 100 years ago!). Now the prisoners can get paid some wages in return for labor, in a mostly voluntary labor system. Unlike the CCP, every inmate had a trial and was found guilty of some crime, and is now repaying their debt to society - as it were. What did the million Muslims in the article get convicted of in China? Being Muslims? What about the Uyghurs? So now they are slaves for the rest of their lives...
        arentyouspecial 6y ago
        Yes we all know how fair and just the American criminal system is and paying pennies is vastly different than paying nothing.
        darig 6y ago
        Unlike the fairy tales you play in your head to convince yourself you're not a racist, many US inmates were wrongly accused and convicted - as it were. Society incentivizes the justice system to target the defenseless for victimless "crimes" so that they may demand restitution while reaffirming their baseless moral superiority. You are their poster boy. Why?
mgh2 6y ago
Nobody said these companies are doing a public good... The main difference is punishing someone who did commit a crime vs someone who did not. As simple as that.
- arentyouspecial 6y ago
  Except they did when they said “ Most people would also agree, providing a purpose - jobs, training and skills to inmates is a net win for everyone involved, and is a core component in rehabilitation - directly combating rescindance.” I’m not down playing the Chinese labor camps, I’m taking issue with claiming the prison labor in the US is some moral good. It’s exploiting people, not attempting to rehabilitating them.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    You're forgetting the prison labor programs in the US are largely voluntary. I say largely because there are some cases where punishment dictates certain number of hours worked, etc... but we're splitting hairs at this point.
    - arentyouspecial 6y ago
      Then why aren’t they paid a fair wage? Keep moving the goal post, but these people are being exploited.
      - Alupis 6y ago
        Yes, you can indeed continue to move the goal posts, but acknowledge we're far into the weeds and even further from what the article focused on - Religious Slave Labor Camps in China. Why aren't inmates paid a "fair" wage? Well, that's up for debate and I think I'd enjoy hearing pros and cons. Some cons I could think of are: * These are inmates, serving a sentence as punishment for a crime they were convicted of. * Most of their living expenses are already provided. * Alternatives include doing nothing all day instead of a job. * If inmate labor cost what non-inmate labor costs, why would anyone hire inmates? * The labor programs are largely voluntary. * The money earned is used as a reward for participation, good behavior, and showing a willingness to work and get along with other inmates. Misbehave and you don't get to work, and don't earn money. Now maybe it is time to step up some sort of minimum wage for inmates... but that doesn't distract from atrocities the CCP is committing in present day.

Alupis 6y ago

That is a debate worth having - but calling cheaply paid prison labor "Slave Labor", or equivocating it to Chinese Forced Labor Camps is disingenuous and dishonest. They are flatly not the same, even if you believe it's debatably exploitive.

arentyouspecial 6y ago
Considering the rise of convict leasing programs across the south after the passing of the 13th amendment, I’d say there was very little difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_leasing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_leasing
- Alupis 6y ago
  > The practice peaked around 1880, was formally outlawed by the last state (Alabama) in 1928, and persisted in various forms until it was abolished by President Franklin D. Roosevelt via Francis Biddle's "Circular 3591" of December 12, 1941. You use something that was ended (because people thought it was wrong!) nearly a century ago as supporting evidence for what exactly?
  - arentyouspecial 6y ago
    It wouldn’t be like paying prisoners literal pennies is a way of getting around the law that made convict leasing illegal.
    - Alupis 6y ago
      Convict Leasing is different, and people felt strongly enough that it was bad that the laws were changed (nearly 100 years ago!). Now the prisoners can get paid some wages in return for labor, in a mostly voluntary labor system. Unlike the CCP, every inmate had a trial and was found guilty of some crime, and is now repaying their debt to society - as it were. What did the million Muslims in the article get convicted of in China? Being Muslims? What about the Uyghurs? So now they are slaves for the rest of their lives...
      - arentyouspecial 6y ago
        Yes we all know how fair and just the American criminal system is and paying pennies is vastly different than paying nothing.
      - darig 6y ago
        Unlike the fairy tales you play in your head to convince yourself you're not a racist, many US inmates were wrongly accused and convicted - as it were. Society incentivizes the justice system to target the defenseless for victimless "crimes" so that they may demand restitution while reaffirming their baseless moral superiority. You are their poster boy. Why?

mgh2 6y ago

Nobody said these companies are doing a public good... The main difference is punishing someone who did commit a crime vs someone who did not. As simple as that.

arentyouspecial 6y ago
Except they did when they said “ Most people would also agree, providing a purpose - jobs, training and skills to inmates is a net win for everyone involved, and is a core component in rehabilitation - directly combating rescindance.” I’m not down playing the Chinese labor camps, I’m taking issue with claiming the prison labor in the US is some moral good. It’s exploiting people, not attempting to rehabilitating them.
- Alupis 6y ago
  You're forgetting the prison labor programs in the US are largely voluntary. I say largely because there are some cases where punishment dictates certain number of hours worked, etc... but we're splitting hairs at this point.
  - arentyouspecial 6y ago
    Then why aren’t they paid a fair wage? Keep moving the goal post, but these people are being exploited.
    - Alupis 6y ago
      Yes, you can indeed continue to move the goal posts, but acknowledge we're far into the weeds and even further from what the article focused on - Religious Slave Labor Camps in China. Why aren't inmates paid a "fair" wage? Well, that's up for debate and I think I'd enjoy hearing pros and cons. Some cons I could think of are: * These are inmates, serving a sentence as punishment for a crime they were convicted of. * Most of their living expenses are already provided. * Alternatives include doing nothing all day instead of a job. * If inmate labor cost what non-inmate labor costs, why would anyone hire inmates? * The labor programs are largely voluntary. * The money earned is used as a reward for participation, good behavior, and showing a willingness to work and get along with other inmates. Misbehave and you don't get to work, and don't earn money. Now maybe it is time to step up some sort of minimum wage for inmates... but that doesn't distract from atrocities the CCP is committing in present day.