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>Bitcoin seems like a good inflation hedge due to its fixed amount. ... until Tether explodes, and then it's musical chairs to figure out who the bagholders wi

>Bitcoin seems like a good inflation hedge due to its fixed amount. ... until Tether explodes, and then it's musical chairs to figure out who the bagholders will be. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16298999/in-re-tether-and-bitfinex-crypto-asset-litigation/?page=2 https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16298999/in-re-tether-a...

rattlesnakedave 6y ago
Like clockwork, the "muh tether" FUD continues on HN. If you think tether is the only reason cryptoassets are increasing in value, you are simply not paying attention.
- ur-whale 6y ago
  While I would very much like to agree with you, I still haven't read a convincing debunking of the "tether is used to manipulate Bitcoin's price" argument. The facts, AFAIK are: - Bitfinex (or rather some entity controlled by the same folks who own Bitfinex) can emit as much Tether (USDT) as they like. - They claim to have, in a reserve bank account somewhere, one dollar for each USDT ever emitted (which - in itself - is problematic because of counterparty risk). - They have never - so far - provided a proper third party audit of said reserve bank accounts. - Even if they do *actually* have one USD stashed for each USDT in circulation, it's highly unlikely they're just letting it sit there, it's likely invested, therefore risk, therefore the equation 1USD==1USDT is iffy at best. - emitted USDT can easily be used to buy BTC and pump the price up I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on any of the points above.
  - aeternum 6y ago
    I generally agree that they should allow a proper 3rd party audit and disclose their USD asset management strategy. The biggest counter-argument is just the orders of magnitude of the two. Tether's market cap is 20b whereas bitcoin's is 350b. While that's large enough to cause a temporary shock and can be used for short-term manipulation, it likely not enough to cause long-term damage.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Ah you misspelled “muh reality” - I know it’s hard to reason through but let me put it to you this way. Give me one single solitary shred of evidence that they have the money they claim to have. The burden of proof is on them and I’m sure as confident as you are you’ve seen some? For instance if I told you I had a trillion dollars in an offshore bank account, and that if you gave me $1 I’d give you a funbuck and throw it on the pile with no obligation to redeem it, would you up and believe me right away? If so I may just get into this crypto business after all.
  - rattlesnakedave 6y ago
    Give me one single solitary shred of evidence that $20B of tether in existence has any correlation with Bitcoin's $512B marketcap.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Totally, ezpz. Here's a study [1]. And here's Tether creator and alleged sex offender Brock Pierce saying so [2]. You may also want to review the evidence submitted in the lawsuit brought by New York and Georgia, such as the time Bitfinex' "Merlin" (CFO Giancarlo Devasini) sent $1.5 billion dollars to a money launderer, CCC [3], claiming they didn't know his real name - and in an increasingly desperate conversation with CCC while attempting to get some of that money back, he said this leaves the entire global crypto market at risk. [4] Merlin [15.10.18 10:02] please understand all this could be extremely dangerous for everybody, the entire crypto community Merlin [15.10.18 10:03] BTC could tank to below 1k if we don't act quickly I don't know, honestly, if none of this convinces you, then I'm not sure even a direct literal admission of the scheme would anyways. You at least smell smoke dontcha? I guess this makes it your move! I expect that audit shortly! [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jofi.12903 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jofi.12903 [2] https://twitter.com/brockpierce/status/961044456421183489 https://twitter.com/brockpierce/status/961044456421183489 [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/hantb2/buttfinex_sent_15bn_to_a_dude_on_the_internet/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/hantb2/buttfinex_... [4] https://cryptonews.com/news/how-merlin-lost-patience-trying-to-save-bitfinex-s-usd-851-m-3760.htm https://cryptonews.com/news/how-merlin-lost-patience-trying-...

rattlesnakedave 6y ago

Like clockwork, the "muh tether" FUD continues on HN. If you think tether is the only reason cryptoassets are increasing in value, you are simply not paying attention.

ur-whale 6y ago
While I would very much like to agree with you, I still haven't read a convincing debunking of the "tether is used to manipulate Bitcoin's price" argument. The facts, AFAIK are: - Bitfinex (or rather some entity controlled by the same folks who own Bitfinex) can emit as much Tether (USDT) as they like. - They claim to have, in a reserve bank account somewhere, one dollar for each USDT ever emitted (which - in itself - is problematic because of counterparty risk). - They have never - so far - provided a proper third party audit of said reserve bank accounts. - Even if they do *actually* have one USD stashed for each USDT in circulation, it's highly unlikely they're just letting it sit there, it's likely invested, therefore risk, therefore the equation 1USD==1USDT is iffy at best. - emitted USDT can easily be used to buy BTC and pump the price up I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on any of the points above.
- aeternum 6y ago
  I generally agree that they should allow a proper 3rd party audit and disclose their USD asset management strategy. The biggest counter-argument is just the orders of magnitude of the two. Tether's market cap is 20b whereas bitcoin's is 350b. While that's large enough to cause a temporary shock and can be used for short-term manipulation, it likely not enough to cause long-term damage.
arcticbull 6y ago
Ah you misspelled “muh reality” - I know it’s hard to reason through but let me put it to you this way. Give me one single solitary shred of evidence that they have the money they claim to have. The burden of proof is on them and I’m sure as confident as you are you’ve seen some? For instance if I told you I had a trillion dollars in an offshore bank account, and that if you gave me $1 I’d give you a funbuck and throw it on the pile with no obligation to redeem it, would you up and believe me right away? If so I may just get into this crypto business after all.
- rattlesnakedave 6y ago
  Give me one single solitary shred of evidence that $20B of tether in existence has any correlation with Bitcoin's $512B marketcap.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Totally, ezpz. Here's a study [1]. And here's Tether creator and alleged sex offender Brock Pierce saying so [2]. You may also want to review the evidence submitted in the lawsuit brought by New York and Georgia, such as the time Bitfinex' "Merlin" (CFO Giancarlo Devasini) sent $1.5 billion dollars to a money launderer, CCC [3], claiming they didn't know his real name - and in an increasingly desperate conversation with CCC while attempting to get some of that money back, he said this leaves the entire global crypto market at risk. [4] Merlin [15.10.18 10:02] please understand all this could be extremely dangerous for everybody, the entire crypto community Merlin [15.10.18 10:03] BTC could tank to below 1k if we don't act quickly I don't know, honestly, if none of this convinces you, then I'm not sure even a direct literal admission of the scheme would anyways. You at least smell smoke dontcha? I guess this makes it your move! I expect that audit shortly! [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jofi.12903 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jofi.12903 [2] https://twitter.com/brockpierce/status/961044456421183489 https://twitter.com/brockpierce/status/961044456421183489 [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/hantb2/buttfinex_sent_15bn_to_a_dude_on_the_internet/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/hantb2/buttfinex_... [4] https://cryptonews.com/news/how-merlin-lost-patience-trying-to-save-bitfinex-s-usd-851-m-3760.htm https://cryptonews.com/news/how-merlin-lost-patience-trying-...