4 ms·

"Body positivity" is -- inadvertently for the most part -- insidious. Of course, don't make fun of overweight people for being overweight, don't be an asshole.

"Body positivity" is -- inadvertently for the most part -- insidious. Of course, don't make fun of overweight people for being overweight, don't be an asshole. However, making people people believe that they can eat whatever they want, can be obese and still healthy doesn't help at all. It might make you feel nice, but it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run.

lemonspat 6y ago
> but it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. If the United States ever moves to a public-funded healthcare regime, it will also be more expensive and destructive to care for from a government budget perspective.
- forrestthewoods 6y ago
  False! Unhealthy people are great for saving money. Health care costs are disproportionately skewed towards end of life care. People who are unhealthy die younger and more quickly. Edit: Here you go. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Assuming the healthcare issues resulting from being overweight result in a sudden death. Considering they result in chronic conditions such as diabetes and hypertension and require things like heart bypass surgeries, I doubt it.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    After 20 years of avoidable diabetes.
  - OminousWeapons 6y ago
    Obesity is strongly correlated with chronic healthcare issues (stroke, coronary artery disease, cardiac issues, diabetes, cancer, etc) and poor health outcomes overall. This has partially been directly linked back to signaling from adipose tissue. Being fat is unhealthy; this has been known for awhile; full stop. We can absolutely expect an aging, obese population to contribute to increased healthcare costs. Additionally, while end of life care for the elderly is one significant contributor to health care costs, managing patients with multiple chronic healthcare conditions actually is the single largest cause of healthcare spend. If we want to be blunt, your assumptions are wrong: Fat people typically don't die suddenly while young, they die slowly after battling chronic disease, and they rack up costs while doing so.
  - spaetzleesser 6y ago
    Nonsense. You just move the years of suffering and high health care expenses to a younger age.
    - edanm 6y ago
      But you still have less years overall of high health care expenses, don't you?
HuwytNashi_008 6y ago
>It might make you feel nice, but it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. This is the decline of the West in a nutshell. Expect the obese to become a legally protected class and have our governments actively importing obese foreigners soon. I'm sure there's already some kind of quota giving them preferential employment opportunities.
- teddyfrozevelt 6y ago
  what
ojnabieoot 6y ago
I’m sorry but you can’t just make broad sweeping claims like this with literally zero supporting logic or evidence: > However, making people people believe that they can eat whatever they want, can be obese and still healthy doesn't help at all... it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. First of all, I can’t think of a single body positivity activist who says “you can eat whatever and you’ll still be healthy.” It doesn’t really help your argument when the first target is a preposterous strawman! More to the point: body positive ideologies might be damaging in the long run. But it might not be! You have absolutely no evidence either way - nor could you, even in principle! - and it’s extremely irritating to see such strongly-stated ignorance. One of the major impetuses for the body positivity movement is the incredible danger of anorexia nervosa, which is the most lethal mental illness and has been spiking dramatically since the 80s. And as an unambiguously psychological disorder, nervosa rates are much more easily understood as a consequence of societal views of body image than obesity rates. To be blunt: although there isn’t extant data, I strongly suspect that body positivity saves more lives than it loses. There will be many more women discouraged from starving themselves than women discouraged from moderate exercise and reasonable diets. Regardless, obviously the body positivity movement has nothing to do with the 21st century rise in US obesity rates (not to mention Mexico). The problem in both countries is much more agricultural/economic. And it strikes me as a bit ridiculous (or dishonest) to suggest that marginalizing body-positive ideologies can reduce the obesity rate.
- viraptor 6y ago
  It depends what people mean by body positivity. If it's "you're not a bad or less worthy person if you're of weight X, and it's ok to accept some realistic compromises" that's one thing. If it's "people only tell you to not be fat to comply with society stereotypes and you can be healthy at any weight", that's something completely different. I've seen both and people don't often clarify their position.
- worik 6y ago
  To add: Shaming people about their bodies is not the way to help them loose weight.
- turing_complete 6y ago

lemonspat 6y ago

> but it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. If the United States ever moves to a public-funded healthcare regime, it will also be more expensive and destructive to care for from a government budget perspective.

forrestthewoods 6y ago
False! Unhealthy people are great for saving money. Health care costs are disproportionately skewed towards end of life care. People who are unhealthy die younger and more quickly. Edit: Here you go. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748...
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Assuming the healthcare issues resulting from being overweight result in a sudden death. Considering they result in chronic conditions such as diabetes and hypertension and require things like heart bypass surgeries, I doubt it.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  After 20 years of avoidable diabetes.
- OminousWeapons 6y ago
  Obesity is strongly correlated with chronic healthcare issues (stroke, coronary artery disease, cardiac issues, diabetes, cancer, etc) and poor health outcomes overall. This has partially been directly linked back to signaling from adipose tissue. Being fat is unhealthy; this has been known for awhile; full stop. We can absolutely expect an aging, obese population to contribute to increased healthcare costs. Additionally, while end of life care for the elderly is one significant contributor to health care costs, managing patients with multiple chronic healthcare conditions actually is the single largest cause of healthcare spend. If we want to be blunt, your assumptions are wrong: Fat people typically don't die suddenly while young, they die slowly after battling chronic disease, and they rack up costs while doing so.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  Nonsense. You just move the years of suffering and high health care expenses to a younger age.
  - edanm 6y ago
    But you still have less years overall of high health care expenses, don't you?

HuwytNashi_008 6y ago

>It might make you feel nice, but it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. This is the decline of the West in a nutshell. Expect the obese to become a legally protected class and have our governments actively importing obese foreigners soon. I'm sure there's already some kind of quota giving them preferential employment opportunities.

teddyfrozevelt 6y ago
what

ojnabieoot 6y ago

I’m sorry but you can’t just make broad sweeping claims like this with literally zero supporting logic or evidence: > However, making people people believe that they can eat whatever they want, can be obese and still healthy doesn't help at all... it is very destructive and unhelpful in the long run. First of all, I can’t think of a single body positivity activist who says “you can eat whatever and you’ll still be healthy.” It doesn’t really help your argument when the first target is a preposterous strawman! More to the point: body positive ideologies might be damaging in the long run. But it might not be! You have absolutely no evidence either way - nor could you, even in principle! - and it’s extremely irritating to see such strongly-stated ignorance. One of the major impetuses for the body positivity movement is the incredible danger of anorexia nervosa, which is the most lethal mental illness and has been spiking dramatically since the 80s. And as an unambiguously psychological disorder, nervosa rates are much more easily understood as a consequence of societal views of body image than obesity rates. To be blunt: although there isn’t extant data, I strongly suspect that body positivity saves more lives than it loses. There will be many more women discouraged from starving themselves than women discouraged from moderate exercise and reasonable diets. Regardless, obviously the body positivity movement has nothing to do with the 21st century rise in US obesity rates (not to mention Mexico). The problem in both countries is much more agricultural/economic. And it strikes me as a bit ridiculous (or dishonest) to suggest that marginalizing body-positive ideologies can reduce the obesity rate.

viraptor 6y ago
It depends what people mean by body positivity. If it's "you're not a bad or less worthy person if you're of weight X, and it's ok to accept some realistic compromises" that's one thing. If it's "people only tell you to not be fat to comply with society stereotypes and you can be healthy at any weight", that's something completely different. I've seen both and people don't often clarify their position.
worik 6y ago
To add: Shaming people about their bodies is not the way to help them loose weight.
turing_complete 6y ago