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The FSD update which merges the cameras together inside the NN is so drastically different than the software you're describing your experience. You might as we

The FSD update which merges the cameras together inside the NN is so drastically different than the software you're describing your experience. You might as well be comparing your experience driving a BMW or Cadillac with SuperCruise. Your experience on the old tech stack is irrelevant.

judge2020 6y ago
Well, apparently it's the same NNs. The FSD beta just has more stuff turned on: https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1343670544529575936?s=20 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1343670544529575936?... https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1336467014727110656?s=20 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1336467014727110656?...
- kjksf 6y ago
  The guy you're quoting gets his information from spelunking in Tesla firmware. He's not a dev on AutoPilot team. It's well documented that FSD is a architectural rewrite of the code. Pre-FSD the input to NN were individual still pictures taken by the cameras. New architecture feeds NN with video feed from all cameras. New architecture is possible thanks to new FSD chip that is 20x better that was Tesla used before. I don't see what definition of NN would consider them the same system. On YouTube you can find talks by Karpathy where he goes into detail about this stuff.
tenacious_tuna 6y ago
Fellow Model 3 driver here. > You might as well be comparing your experience driving a BMW or Cadillac .... But OP isn't--he's comparing the current live Tesla features with paywall'd / betawall'd features on the same car, from the same manufacturer. I cannot think of a more relevant comparison! I think it's completely reasonable to doubt Tesla's (and Elon's) claims in this realm, when the existing, public examples of this technology fall far, far short of the kind of confidence we'd want to have in these systems. > Your experience on the old tech stack is irrelevant. I 100% disagree. If Tesla can't even get a basic function like cruise control to work well enough that drivers are confident in it, why would I trust that they can get self drving to work well? Especially following things like the Summon beta, or similar fiascos? I still get twitchy when my M3 comes up on an off ramp it's not supposed to take on autosteer--I've had the same behavior as OP (sudden unexpected speed decrease) happen far too many times for me to have confidence in that system. In turn, I have even less faith in the more complicated systems, like autosteer or FSD.
haberman 6y ago
That's quite reassuring to hear. It's surprising to me that the software wouldn't have been stereoscopically merging cameras already, but adding that capability does sound like the kind of thing that could actually lead to an entirely different level of performance. There is a history of overpromising that will be still leave me somewhat skeptical until I see it. But it does sound like a move in the right direction.
kelnos 6y ago
Perhaps, but if they can't get an orders of magnitude simpler adaptive cruise control right (not just right, but perfect), it doesn't lend much confidence that they'll get FSD right any time soon. The protestations to the contrary here reek of defensive fanboy/apologist behavior.
- kjksf 6y ago
  You can watch videos on YouTube of FSD beta doing very complex things. It's clearly order of magnitude more advanced and capable than pre-FSD AutoPilot. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fanboy/apologist" does the opposite of strengthening your argument.
throwaway314158 6y ago
> Your experience on the old tech stack is irrelevant. It's cruise control. If you couldn't fry an egg without burning it, forgive me for being a little skeptical when you claim that you can make award-winning souffles after having attended some cooking classes.

judge2020 6y ago

Well, apparently it's the same NNs. The FSD beta just has more stuff turned on: https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1343670544529575936?s=20 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1343670544529575936?... https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1336467014727110656?s=20 https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1336467014727110656?...

kjksf 6y ago
The guy you're quoting gets his information from spelunking in Tesla firmware. He's not a dev on AutoPilot team. It's well documented that FSD is a architectural rewrite of the code. Pre-FSD the input to NN were individual still pictures taken by the cameras. New architecture feeds NN with video feed from all cameras. New architecture is possible thanks to new FSD chip that is 20x better that was Tesla used before. I don't see what definition of NN would consider them the same system. On YouTube you can find talks by Karpathy where he goes into detail about this stuff.

tenacious_tuna 6y ago

Fellow Model 3 driver here. > You might as well be comparing your experience driving a BMW or Cadillac .... But OP isn't--he's comparing the current live Tesla features with paywall'd / betawall'd features on the same car, from the same manufacturer. I cannot think of a more relevant comparison! I think it's completely reasonable to doubt Tesla's (and Elon's) claims in this realm, when the existing, public examples of this technology fall far, far short of the kind of confidence we'd want to have in these systems. > Your experience on the old tech stack is irrelevant. I 100% disagree. If Tesla can't even get a basic function like cruise control to work well enough that drivers are confident in it, why would I trust that they can get self drving to work well? Especially following things like the Summon beta, or similar fiascos? I still get twitchy when my M3 comes up on an off ramp it's not supposed to take on autosteer--I've had the same behavior as OP (sudden unexpected speed decrease) happen far too many times for me to have confidence in that system. In turn, I have even less faith in the more complicated systems, like autosteer or FSD.

haberman 6y ago

That's quite reassuring to hear. It's surprising to me that the software wouldn't have been stereoscopically merging cameras already, but adding that capability does sound like the kind of thing that could actually lead to an entirely different level of performance. There is a history of overpromising that will be still leave me somewhat skeptical until I see it. But it does sound like a move in the right direction.

kelnos 6y ago

Perhaps, but if they can't get an orders of magnitude simpler adaptive cruise control right (not just right, but perfect), it doesn't lend much confidence that they'll get FSD right any time soon. The protestations to the contrary here reek of defensive fanboy/apologist behavior.

kjksf 6y ago
You can watch videos on YouTube of FSD beta doing very complex things. It's clearly order of magnitude more advanced and capable than pre-FSD AutoPilot. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fanboy/apologist" does the opposite of strengthening your argument.

throwaway314158 6y ago

> Your experience on the old tech stack is irrelevant. It's cruise control. If you couldn't fry an egg without burning it, forgive me for being a little skeptical when you claim that you can make award-winning souffles after having attended some cooking classes.