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They have forced every iOS/iPadOS user to use their engine, and therefore force all web developers to adapt to them. They aren't interested in keeping up becau

They have forced every iOS/iPadOS user to use their engine, and therefore force all web developers to adapt to them. They aren't interested in keeping up because they don't gain anything from it and they don't loose a lot by lagging behind. Apple is more than capable to implement stuff like push notifications but that would compete with the app store where they make money and by disallowing others from bringing a browser to iOS they don't need to.

marmaduke 6y ago
> push notifications Is this really just for money? On Android I found it insufferable that websites in tabs I had closed could still pop something up on my lock screen.
- postalrat 6y ago
  Web push can pop up messages if the browser is closed and your phone's screen is off. It's well supported on most android devices. As a user I want them in sites like Slack so I never need to install the Slack app.
  - berkes 6y ago
    > so I never need to install the Slack app Same here for Twitter, Mastodon, the local news (push), weather (push and geo), public transport (push, geo and backround-service) and so on. There are apps for all of them, but especially the apps in the long tail (local news, local public transport) are bad (as in: it is clear they are budget-restrained). I don't want to fill my phone with hardly-used, crappy apps, when a link to a website will suffice perfectly. I use web-apps for anything possible. Via https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tobykurien.webapps/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tobykurien.webapps/ and https://progressiveapp.store/pwas https://progressiveapp.store/pwas
Something1234 6y ago
> push notifications Dear god no. These should never have been a thing in fact. Especially for untrusted websites. I should make a website that abuses them just to make my point. Their only value is getting an eyeball back on to the ads. This is one thing Apple did right.
- SahAssar 6y ago
  The same argument is true for push notifications in native apps. For both you can accept or deny them, and some apps (like chat, email, todo) that primarily display text and give you a notification when something happens could just aswell be a web app instead. Web push notifications does not mean any random site can spam you just because you visited it once. You have to explicitly accept it.
- reissbaker 6y ago
  What are you talking about? "Untrusted websites" can't send push notifications. Being able to send push notifications requires a browser-level popup dialog that the user explicitly has to opt into, for each individual website. There's no drive-by API that lets you spam random website visitors with push notifications. I don't see how you could "make a website that abuses them just to make [your] point." No one would bother enabling notifications for your abusive website, and even if you managed to convince them to do it, they'd just turn them off for your abusive website as soon as you started spamming them.
  - berkes 6y ago
    Yup. On my Android, each of those push-notifications come with a "configure notifications" which lets you turn them off quickly and easily. Ironically, I use that feature for installed apps most (you're a banking app, stop bugging me with unrelated news!) and hardly ever to turn off a accidentally allowed web-notification.

marmaduke 6y ago

> push notifications Is this really just for money? On Android I found it insufferable that websites in tabs I had closed could still pop something up on my lock screen.

postalrat 6y ago
Web push can pop up messages if the browser is closed and your phone's screen is off. It's well supported on most android devices. As a user I want them in sites like Slack so I never need to install the Slack app.
- berkes 6y ago
  > so I never need to install the Slack app Same here for Twitter, Mastodon, the local news (push), weather (push and geo), public transport (push, geo and backround-service) and so on. There are apps for all of them, but especially the apps in the long tail (local news, local public transport) are bad (as in: it is clear they are budget-restrained). I don't want to fill my phone with hardly-used, crappy apps, when a link to a website will suffice perfectly. I use web-apps for anything possible. Via https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tobykurien.webapps/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.tobykurien.webapps/ and https://progressiveapp.store/pwas https://progressiveapp.store/pwas

Something1234 6y ago

> push notifications Dear god no. These should never have been a thing in fact. Especially for untrusted websites. I should make a website that abuses them just to make my point. Their only value is getting an eyeball back on to the ads. This is one thing Apple did right.

SahAssar 6y ago
The same argument is true for push notifications in native apps. For both you can accept or deny them, and some apps (like chat, email, todo) that primarily display text and give you a notification when something happens could just aswell be a web app instead. Web push notifications does not mean any random site can spam you just because you visited it once. You have to explicitly accept it.
reissbaker 6y ago
What are you talking about? "Untrusted websites" can't send push notifications. Being able to send push notifications requires a browser-level popup dialog that the user explicitly has to opt into, for each individual website. There's no drive-by API that lets you spam random website visitors with push notifications. I don't see how you could "make a website that abuses them just to make [your] point." No one would bother enabling notifications for your abusive website, and even if you managed to convince them to do it, they'd just turn them off for your abusive website as soon as you started spamming them.
- berkes 6y ago
  Yup. On my Android, each of those push-notifications come with a "configure notifications" which lets you turn them off quickly and easily. Ironically, I use that feature for installed apps most (you're a banking app, stop bugging me with unrelated news!) and hardly ever to turn off a accidentally allowed web-notification.