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If I didn't know who Boston Dynamics was, I would have said that this is just CGI. The animations look so fake. I think the issue is that they're aggressively s

by sxp 6y ago

If I didn't know who Boston Dynamics was, I would have said that this is just CGI. The animations look so fake. I think the issue is that they're aggressively smoothing the motion since mechanical systems don't have the ability to accelerate & jerk as fast as biological systems. Cheap mocap animation has the same problem because the frame rate of the capture system is too low. They interpolate between captured keyframes which results in the wrong velocities in the end.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago
I had the same feeling, and I assume they evoked this feeling intentionally trough the lighting, camera movement, etc...
- daenz 6y ago
  I felt the same way, but I think it might be because of the context that we're used to seeing advanced robots. Currently, that context is video games and movies, where we know they're fake. In a sense, we're conditioned to see this kind of tech and expect that it is done with CGI, so it makes unbelievable when we see it done for real.
  - danbmil99 6y ago
    That's why Boston Dynamics should put on a live show. Cirque du Robots
roughly 6y ago
Agree that if anyone except BD put out this video I’d bin it as fake immediately. I still have a hard time saying I believe it - it feels like such a jump from where my mental model of their robots was and CGI is so good at this point that it feels easier for this to be a fake than real.
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  Same, and I've been working with some of the latest and greatest collaborative and industrial six-axis and SCARA robots. There's definitely a back and forth between innovation and legacy in this industry. For example, FANUC famously refuses to deprecate or drop service for any of its equipment, you'll pay through the nose for some of it but they're willing to keep you supplied with parts, service, and bug fixes for 40-year-old equipment if you've got it. Also, a lot of it is clearly designed for "what's the most we can get an average maintenance tech to understand after a 40-hour certification class", not for programmers and engineers. But with a demo like this, it's obvious that BD is working on a level that the industrial automation competition won't reach for decades.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    Please tell me you have a blog
    - LeifCarrotson 6y ago
      I don't, but I do have a domain that's sitting idle except for a mail server. Maybe a blog could be a theme for 2021...
- imglorp 6y ago
  It might help to compare against video with less editing and effects. Several youtubers are playing with Spots and you can get a better idea of what they're really like. Adam Savage: https://youtu.be/-R8wUybrspo?t=2374 https://youtu.be/-R8wUybrspo?t=2374 Marques Brownlee: https://youtu.be/s6_azdBnAlU?t=249 https://youtu.be/s6_azdBnAlU?t=249
  - 1f60c 6y ago
    (A Spot, for those—like me—who didn't know, is the yellow 4-legged robot.)
  - BHSPitMonkey 6y ago
    They're only like what they're "really like" because in those videos they're being operated from behind a layer of abstraction that only allows a few really basic movement patterns (go X direction, at Y speed, within allowed parameters). I think this new video is trying to illustrate more of the highly dynamic capabilities of the machines that can be used by more specialized operators and software. (And I don't think there are any "effects" exaggerating those capabilities like you're implying, unless you mean things like color correction or the occasional cut to another piece of footage).
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    It does, but counterpoint: unassisted (no help balancing) bipedal motion has been a holy grail for a looong time, where 4-legged is child's play by comparison. This could mean that just the bipedals are faked. It would help a lot more to compare footage with real-world people interacting with the bipedal robot.
    - Defenestresque 6y ago
      >It would help a lot more to compare footage with real-world people interacting with the bipedal robot. Maybe I misunderstood your comment but there are definitely videos of people interacting with Atlas (the bipedal robot) to the point that it's a running joke that they'll remember said interactions. See https://youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY?t=83 https://youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY?t=83
CommieBobDole 6y ago
I would go further than that and say that it's obviously CGI, though I don't know if that actually means it is CGI - it could be, as you mentioned, some sort of post-processing. Or maybe it's greenscreened and composited together? More than the smoothness, there just seems to be something off about the weight and momentum that you tend to see in high-end, big-budget-movie CGI, but it's hard to put a definite finger on it.
- gamegoblin 6y ago
  There's a similar effect in old movies when a super-strong character picks up a massive boulder that is actually made of styrofoam or something. You can tell that the mass is wrong based on the way it moves. I think this is a similar effect but in reverse -- we know the limbs are heavy and aren't made of styrofoam, so the fact that they are moving like they are is uncanny. Our brains aren't used to motorized and hydraulic limbs. You can get a little bit of this effect watching assembly line arms sometimes, but it's less jarring because they are clearly disembodied, whereas this thing is fairly humanoid.
  - Gravityloss 6y ago
    Could it be slightly sped up? The robots do make jumps so one could calculate it from that.
    - gamegoblin 6y ago
      I was curious so I just timed the jump at the beginning of the song about 15 seconds in. Assuming the jump is about 30cm, and I stopwatched it at 0.3 seconds from the apex to the ground, you arrive at an acceleration of 9.6m/s^2 which is basically spot on the acceleration due to gravity.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      At 0:57 the camera pans to a position where you can see people on the upper floor walking by in the distance. You can see them move as the robot dance, which shows the video is not sped up. You could claim they were composited in (a suicidal move for BD, if they ever tried that), but if you look closely at the windows below, you can see the the camera crew in the reflection, who also move at the correct pace - and that shot would've been hell of a work to fake. In conclusion: this is real-time.
modzu 6y ago
sound would help, and maybe someone can dig up the real audio version if it is available. because hearing those engines roar and servos buzz, you appreciate there is indeed more going on than meets the eye
espadrine 6y ago
> The animations look so fake. Let’s talk about why it looks fake. I think it comes from the use of hydraulics. Biological muscle is way less linear (it works more like a second-order control system, where things often overshoot their target before dampening). But one part of it may also be algorithmic: the robot’s Kalman filter (?) may correct for errors from sensor fusion much faster than a human would. I would love a more informed opinion than mine though.
- modeless 6y ago
  This video has very little motion blur compared to what you normally see in high quality 4K 24/30 FPS footage (e.g. Hollywood movies). That contributes to the uncanny look, giving it an "animated" or "sped up" feel. Which is funny because most robot demo videos are sped up, but not this one.
- oconnor663 6y ago
  To me it looks like claymation. But of course I can't really explain what it means for something to "look like claymation" to me. Is it that the movement is too isolated? Not isolated enough? Both of those things at the same time in different ways?
  - rusk 6y ago
    Subliminally jerky - you can’t directly perceive it but you are aware of it.
    - im_down_w_otp 6y ago
      "Subliminally jerky" - When you're certain it's dehydrated meat, but you don't know why.
  - jcims 6y ago
    I agree but I chalked that up to motion of extremely rigid bodies under large torque. Watch the reflections on the plexiglass while they are moving. Obviously they could have been composited in but there's definitely a live portion of the shot.
tie_ 6y ago
Mandatory XKCD reference: https://xkcd.com/331/ https://xkcd.com/331/
interestica 6y ago
> aggressively smoothing the motion since mechanical systems don't have the ability to accelerate & jerk as fast as biological systems I wondered if they covered the bots in a flowing dress if it would sell the illusion even more.
jedimastert 6y ago
You might be interested in a couple of videos by an indie vfx group called Corridor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RIHnK0_NE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RIHnK0_NE

by sxp 6y ago

faeyanpiraat 6y ago

I had the same feeling, and I assume they evoked this feeling intentionally trough the lighting, camera movement, etc...

daenz 6y ago
I felt the same way, but I think it might be because of the context that we're used to seeing advanced robots. Currently, that context is video games and movies, where we know they're fake. In a sense, we're conditioned to see this kind of tech and expect that it is done with CGI, so it makes unbelievable when we see it done for real.
- danbmil99 6y ago
  That's why Boston Dynamics should put on a live show. Cirque du Robots

roughly 6y ago

Agree that if anyone except BD put out this video I’d bin it as fake immediately. I still have a hard time saying I believe it - it feels like such a jump from where my mental model of their robots was and CGI is so good at this point that it feels easier for this to be a fake than real.

LeifCarrotson 6y ago
Same, and I've been working with some of the latest and greatest collaborative and industrial six-axis and SCARA robots. There's definitely a back and forth between innovation and legacy in this industry. For example, FANUC famously refuses to deprecate or drop service for any of its equipment, you'll pay through the nose for some of it but they're willing to keep you supplied with parts, service, and bug fixes for 40-year-old equipment if you've got it. Also, a lot of it is clearly designed for "what's the most we can get an average maintenance tech to understand after a 40-hour certification class", not for programmers and engineers. But with a demo like this, it's obvious that BD is working on a level that the industrial automation competition won't reach for decades.
- tomcam 6y ago
  Please tell me you have a blog
  - LeifCarrotson 6y ago
    I don't, but I do have a domain that's sitting idle except for a mail server. Maybe a blog could be a theme for 2021...
imglorp 6y ago
It might help to compare against video with less editing and effects. Several youtubers are playing with Spots and you can get a better idea of what they're really like. Adam Savage: https://youtu.be/-R8wUybrspo?t=2374 https://youtu.be/-R8wUybrspo?t=2374 Marques Brownlee: https://youtu.be/s6_azdBnAlU?t=249 https://youtu.be/s6_azdBnAlU?t=249
- 1f60c 6y ago
  (A Spot, for those—like me—who didn't know, is the yellow 4-legged robot.)
- BHSPitMonkey 6y ago
  They're only like what they're "really like" because in those videos they're being operated from behind a layer of abstraction that only allows a few really basic movement patterns (go X direction, at Y speed, within allowed parameters). I think this new video is trying to illustrate more of the highly dynamic capabilities of the machines that can be used by more specialized operators and software. (And I don't think there are any "effects" exaggerating those capabilities like you're implying, unless you mean things like color correction or the occasional cut to another piece of footage).
- joshspankit 6y ago
  It does, but counterpoint: unassisted (no help balancing) bipedal motion has been a holy grail for a looong time, where 4-legged is child's play by comparison. This could mean that just the bipedals are faked. It would help a lot more to compare footage with real-world people interacting with the bipedal robot.
  - Defenestresque 6y ago
    >It would help a lot more to compare footage with real-world people interacting with the bipedal robot. Maybe I misunderstood your comment but there are definitely videos of people interacting with Atlas (the bipedal robot) to the point that it's a running joke that they'll remember said interactions. See https://youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY?t=83 https://youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY?t=83

CommieBobDole 6y ago

I would go further than that and say that it's obviously CGI, though I don't know if that actually means it is CGI - it could be, as you mentioned, some sort of post-processing. Or maybe it's greenscreened and composited together? More than the smoothness, there just seems to be something off about the weight and momentum that you tend to see in high-end, big-budget-movie CGI, but it's hard to put a definite finger on it.

gamegoblin 6y ago
There's a similar effect in old movies when a super-strong character picks up a massive boulder that is actually made of styrofoam or something. You can tell that the mass is wrong based on the way it moves. I think this is a similar effect but in reverse -- we know the limbs are heavy and aren't made of styrofoam, so the fact that they are moving like they are is uncanny. Our brains aren't used to motorized and hydraulic limbs. You can get a little bit of this effect watching assembly line arms sometimes, but it's less jarring because they are clearly disembodied, whereas this thing is fairly humanoid.
- Gravityloss 6y ago
  Could it be slightly sped up? The robots do make jumps so one could calculate it from that.
  - gamegoblin 6y ago
    I was curious so I just timed the jump at the beginning of the song about 15 seconds in. Assuming the jump is about 30cm, and I stopwatched it at 0.3 seconds from the apex to the ground, you arrive at an acceleration of 9.6m/s^2 which is basically spot on the acceleration due to gravity.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    At 0:57 the camera pans to a position where you can see people on the upper floor walking by in the distance. You can see them move as the robot dance, which shows the video is not sped up. You could claim they were composited in (a suicidal move for BD, if they ever tried that), but if you look closely at the windows below, you can see the the camera crew in the reflection, who also move at the correct pace - and that shot would've been hell of a work to fake. In conclusion: this is real-time.

modzu 6y ago

sound would help, and maybe someone can dig up the real audio version if it is available. because hearing those engines roar and servos buzz, you appreciate there is indeed more going on than meets the eye

espadrine 6y ago

> The animations look so fake. Let’s talk about why it looks fake. I think it comes from the use of hydraulics. Biological muscle is way less linear (it works more like a second-order control system, where things often overshoot their target before dampening). But one part of it may also be algorithmic: the robot’s Kalman filter (?) may correct for errors from sensor fusion much faster than a human would. I would love a more informed opinion than mine though.

modeless 6y ago
This video has very little motion blur compared to what you normally see in high quality 4K 24/30 FPS footage (e.g. Hollywood movies). That contributes to the uncanny look, giving it an "animated" or "sped up" feel. Which is funny because most robot demo videos are sped up, but not this one.
oconnor663 6y ago
To me it looks like claymation. But of course I can't really explain what it means for something to "look like claymation" to me. Is it that the movement is too isolated? Not isolated enough? Both of those things at the same time in different ways?
- rusk 6y ago
  Subliminally jerky - you can’t directly perceive it but you are aware of it.
  - im_down_w_otp 6y ago
    "Subliminally jerky" - When you're certain it's dehydrated meat, but you don't know why.
- jcims 6y ago
  I agree but I chalked that up to motion of extremely rigid bodies under large torque. Watch the reflections on the plexiglass while they are moving. Obviously they could have been composited in but there's definitely a live portion of the shot.

tie_ 6y ago

Mandatory XKCD reference: https://xkcd.com/331/ https://xkcd.com/331/

interestica 6y ago

> aggressively smoothing the motion since mechanical systems don't have the ability to accelerate & jerk as fast as biological systems I wondered if they covered the bots in a flowing dress if it would sell the illusion even more.

jedimastert 6y ago

You might be interested in a couple of videos by an indie vfx group called Corridor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RIHnK0_NE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RIHnK0_NE