3 ms·

Frankly I see both sides. As long as we're using anecdotal evidence ... many of the people I personally know who have suffered the worst during the pandemic,

Frankly I see both sides. As long as we're using anecdotal evidence ... many of the people I personally know who have suffered the worst during the pandemic, are people who never saved or put away money away when times are good. They also, never invested in additional education nor skills. Their disposable income went to vacations, new cars, daily coffee at Starbucks, and a bunch of other frivolities. Always carrying a near zero bank account from end of pay period to end of pay period. But hey, at least they met their responsibilities. They were functioning paycheck-to-paycheck people. Now many broke and really struggling even if they are still employed. Why? Because of reduced hours or salaries to adjust for the pandemic. Usually these kinds of people are susceptible to the slightest change in their salary. That's part and parcel of not saving and living strictly paycheck to paycheck. Do they deserve it? No of course not. Nobody deserves bad fortune like this. These people weren't trying to harm others and they were decent hard working people. However, ... it's not hard to see why they end up like this. These people were never taught to save away money when times were good, to live within their means, to invest, to do the math before buying a car and making modest decisions, heck, even to have the common sense to know that a daily coffee at Starbucks is a terrible financial decision. And many of of these people, even people who are still gainfully employed usually retort with: well I'm never gonna be able to own a home, so I buy what I want with my money now to make myself happy., but the thing is, many people who own homes now, also didn't just have all the money available and had to save up for the down payment and probably live a few years house poor. This expectation that we should all be able to own at least: one smartphone, one computer, one expensive game console, etc. etc. that wasn't a thing back then. Today there are so many things vying for our dollars, that it's hard to just make the choice to save up for a home. But nevertheless, it still needs to be done and especially now during times of a pandemic, the money we put away isn't for a home, but rather, to get through this crisis. It is not victim shaming / blaming to point out that stupid frivolous behavior / practices are a root cause of people's problems. However, it's imperative to understand that bad circumstances, such as COVID-19 can derail the plans of even the most thoughtful, budget conscious and financially savvy people. The thing is, to never take for granted that good times last indefinitely and not squander money earned.

troupe 6y ago
> Do they deserve it? No of course not. Nobody deserves bad fortune like this. Imagine two people that both earn $100k a year. Person A spends $50k and saves the rest. Person B, spends everything they possibly can. Person A is working toward a master's degree in their field investing an hour each evening toward it. Person B spends an hour each evening watching netflix. Then the pandemic hits. (or any other number of other things that are likely to result in job loss.) Both lose their jobs. Person A has savings to get by and ramps up finishing their master's degree. Person B is broke and facing eviction. Does B deserve to be in a worse situation than A? Well, yes, but by "deserve" I don't mean that I would wish anything ill on them, but A was willing to forgo spending in order to have more security in the future. It is kind of like asking if someone who buys 20k mile tires "deserves" to have them wear out at 20k miles when someone that spent significantly more on 90k mile tires has their's last much longer. It was just a matter of investing in different things with different consequences. Both buying the 20k tires and the 90k tires could be very rational depending on what the person was optimizing for.
ryandrake 6y ago
> These people were never taught to save away money when times were good, to live within their means, to invest, to do the math before buying a car and making modest decisions, heck, even to have the common sense to know that a daily coffee at Starbucks is a terrible financial decision. I agree with your overall point, but the Starbucks (see also Avocado Toast) argument is a pretty silly trope. By and large, people aren't broke because they buy coffee at Starbucks, or have a smartphone or game console, and they're not going to suddenly be on the path to riches by giving these things up. These things are small. People are broke because of the big expenses: Health care costs, housing costs, education costs. If someone gives up a $5/workday coffee habit, we're talking around $1200 per year. That's chump change in the grand scheme of things--it's a single trip to the hospital in an ambulance. It would take 40 years of giving up that coffee in order to merely save for a down payment on a $250K starter home.
- racl101 6y ago
  I suppose the daily coffee on its own won't derail people but it usually is a signifier of how little people think about their finances. But yeah you're right, not on its own. I find that the people who are the best with money don't take even the little expenses so lightly and try to find good deals wherever possible. When it comes to coffee, sure, they might buy the occasional drink but it won't be a daily thing guaranteed. They'll usually brew their own coffee. My point being, that when you're savvy about not wasting money then you're all in most of the time. Actually, now that I think about it, the new proverbial overpriced coffee or avocado toeast is starting to become online subscriptions. This is a place where people should really consider if they're worth the $5-10 per month that they pay and hardly ever think about after signing up.

troupe 6y ago

> Do they deserve it? No of course not. Nobody deserves bad fortune like this. Imagine two people that both earn $100k a year. Person A spends $50k and saves the rest. Person B, spends everything they possibly can. Person A is working toward a master's degree in their field investing an hour each evening toward it. Person B spends an hour each evening watching netflix. Then the pandemic hits. (or any other number of other things that are likely to result in job loss.) Both lose their jobs. Person A has savings to get by and ramps up finishing their master's degree. Person B is broke and facing eviction. Does B deserve to be in a worse situation than A? Well, yes, but by "deserve" I don't mean that I would wish anything ill on them, but A was willing to forgo spending in order to have more security in the future. It is kind of like asking if someone who buys 20k mile tires "deserves" to have them wear out at 20k miles when someone that spent significantly more on 90k mile tires has their's last much longer. It was just a matter of investing in different things with different consequences. Both buying the 20k tires and the 90k tires could be very rational depending on what the person was optimizing for.

ryandrake 6y ago

> These people were never taught to save away money when times were good, to live within their means, to invest, to do the math before buying a car and making modest decisions, heck, even to have the common sense to know that a daily coffee at Starbucks is a terrible financial decision. I agree with your overall point, but the Starbucks (see also Avocado Toast) argument is a pretty silly trope. By and large, people aren't broke because they buy coffee at Starbucks, or have a smartphone or game console, and they're not going to suddenly be on the path to riches by giving these things up. These things are small. People are broke because of the big expenses: Health care costs, housing costs, education costs. If someone gives up a $5/workday coffee habit, we're talking around $1200 per year. That's chump change in the grand scheme of things--it's a single trip to the hospital in an ambulance. It would take 40 years of giving up that coffee in order to merely save for a down payment on a $250K starter home.

racl101 6y ago
I suppose the daily coffee on its own won't derail people but it usually is a signifier of how little people think about their finances. But yeah you're right, not on its own. I find that the people who are the best with money don't take even the little expenses so lightly and try to find good deals wherever possible. When it comes to coffee, sure, they might buy the occasional drink but it won't be a daily thing guaranteed. They'll usually brew their own coffee. My point being, that when you're savvy about not wasting money then you're all in most of the time. Actually, now that I think about it, the new proverbial overpriced coffee or avocado toeast is starting to become online subscriptions. This is a place where people should really consider if they're worth the $5-10 per month that they pay and hardly ever think about after signing up.