5 ms·

> They are kept in camps, monitored constantly, have no privacy, are searched constantly and on top of that, they are forced to work or go to detention This al

> They are kept in camps, monitored constantly, have no privacy, are searched constantly and on top of that, they are forced to work or go to detention This also seems to describe prison labor that occurs in the US, which, putting problems and criticisms aside, is definitely different from slavery. I don't think the imprecision in language is helpful, it hurts the cause in the same way people constantly referring to modern political leaders as literal Nazis hurts their credibility.

bigbubba 6y ago
> This also seems to describe prison labor that occurs in the US, which [...] is definitely different from slavery Did you sleep though civics class? Go read the thirteenth amendment.
- DenisM 6y ago
  Please don't do that here. From the guidelines: > Don't be snarky. > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    Run tell dang. Maybe he'll wake up and do something about the blatant CCP shills (I doubt it) after giving me a scolding for telling him (and you) to fuck off.
    - DenisM 6y ago
      > CCP shills And that is also against the rules: > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you despise the rules so much why do you even keep coming here?
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  > The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un... This doesn't say “prison labor is slavery”; it says that prison labor is allowed to be slavery. You should've provided some reference to e.g. a news article to back up your claim. It's legal to paint yourself blue and write obscenities on your face and walk into a library, but that isn't evidence that anyone does it. (Likewise, it's legal to make people pay you fifty times the inflation-adjusted value of a loan you gave them – things being legal isn't evidence that they don't happen, which would be absurd.)
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    Forced labor is slavery, full stop. This was recognized by the men who wrote the 13th amendment. It is not "definitely different". And no, paying a slave does not make it 'not slavery.' Slaves have been paid paltry sums some of the time throughout history. It's still slavery.
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      But you haven't showed it occurs; only that it's legal. Plenty of things are legal that nobody does, and plenty of things are illegal that people do all the time. I happen to know a little bit about what goes on in US prisons, so it's confusing me why you're not providing any of the mountains of evidence to support your point.
YawningAngel 6y ago
It isn't clear to me that prison labour in the US is meaningfully distinct from slavery
- bigbubba 6y ago
  Because it isn't. It's distinct from chattel slavery, which is not the only form of slavery. Bonded labor is the most common form of slavery today, and is also not chattel slavery.
- dpifke 6y ago
  It isn't, which is why the 13th amendment (which bans other forms of slavery) explicitly permits it. Some members from both houses of Congress have recently proposed a constitutional amendment to change this: https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Abolition%20Amendment%20Text.pdf https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Abolition...
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Except for the due process trial, conviction, and sentencing.
  - downrightmike 6y ago
    yeah, that's the way it is justified, repaying debts to society.

bigbubba 6y ago

> This also seems to describe prison labor that occurs in the US, which [...] is definitely different from slavery Did you sleep though civics class? Go read the thirteenth amendment.

DenisM 6y ago
Please don't do that here. From the guidelines: > Don't be snarky. > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bigbubba 6y ago
  Run tell dang. Maybe he'll wake up and do something about the blatant CCP shills (I doubt it) after giving me a scolding for telling him (and you) to fuck off.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    > CCP shills And that is also against the rules: > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you despise the rules so much why do you even keep coming here?
wizzwizz4 6y ago
> The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un... This doesn't say “prison labor is slavery”; it says that prison labor is allowed to be slavery. You should've provided some reference to e.g. a news article to back up your claim. It's legal to paint yourself blue and write obscenities on your face and walk into a library, but that isn't evidence that anyone does it. (Likewise, it's legal to make people pay you fifty times the inflation-adjusted value of a loan you gave them – things being legal isn't evidence that they don't happen, which would be absurd.)
- bigbubba 6y ago
  Forced labor is slavery, full stop. This was recognized by the men who wrote the 13th amendment. It is not "definitely different". And no, paying a slave does not make it 'not slavery.' Slaves have been paid paltry sums some of the time throughout history. It's still slavery.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    But you haven't showed it occurs; only that it's legal. Plenty of things are legal that nobody does, and plenty of things are illegal that people do all the time. I happen to know a little bit about what goes on in US prisons, so it's confusing me why you're not providing any of the mountains of evidence to support your point.

YawningAngel 6y ago

It isn't clear to me that prison labour in the US is meaningfully distinct from slavery

bigbubba 6y ago
Because it isn't. It's distinct from chattel slavery, which is not the only form of slavery. Bonded labor is the most common form of slavery today, and is also not chattel slavery.
dpifke 6y ago
It isn't, which is why the 13th amendment (which bans other forms of slavery) explicitly permits it. Some members from both houses of Congress have recently proposed a constitutional amendment to change this: https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Abolition%20Amendment%20Text.pdf https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Abolition...
throwaway201103 6y ago
Except for the due process trial, conviction, and sentencing.
- downrightmike 6y ago
  yeah, that's the way it is justified, repaying debts to society.