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Recently, Apple's supplier, Wistron faced revolt after treating workers unfairly here in India. And India is not really the most shining example of protecting o

Recently, Apple's supplier, Wistron faced revolt after treating workers unfairly here in India. And India is not really the most shining example of protecting our workers from unfair and harsh working conditions. So, if such treatments don't fly here, I don't think they will fly anywhere else. The kind of labor expectation that these companies have after their stints in China is ethically incompatible with most other countries. So, I can't see the condition improving in the near future, companies will continue chasing profits at all cost and China will remain the most fertile ground to do that.

threeseed 6y ago
Note that immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation refusing to award them any more work and requiring them to resolve the issues. Governments really need to do the heavy lifting though because apart from refusing to hand over money/work they are very limited in what they can do.
- gthtjtkt 6y ago
  > immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation That's far too late and at that point they had no choice. They deserve no credit for doing it.
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    They deserve credit for changing behavior, but their policy should be proactive not reactive. This ought to be embedded into their branding such that they profit from their stance on human rights while also making it a desirable marketing point for competitors. (And surely they can afford to)
- onepointsixC 6y ago
  I respectfully disagree. The only heavy lifting that governments need is to hold Apple and their executives criminally responsible. Apple has shown ruthless effectiveness in tracking down leakers and prosecuting them. But making sure the workers who are making their parts and assembling their devices aren't slaves or being abused is a bridge too far for the richest company in the world? I don't believe it. It's Apple's responsibility, and if achieving such a goal in some backwater is too difficult then maybe it shouldn't have been doing business there in the first place.
  - rgovostes 6y ago
    They do publish an annual Supplier Responsibility Report. It's been a while since I read it, but they've definitely found and punished misbehaving suppliers. I think I remember one instance where underage workers were discovered and Apple forced the supplier to finance their higher education. In another they found a false wall had been installed in a factory to conceal hazardously stored chemicals and, again if memory serves, immediately terminated the supplier's contract. https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ According to HN search this is the only comment in over 600 that mentions this page. Beyond the marketing text, the PDFs at the bottom cover thousands of pages of supplier guidelines, government filings, lists of suppliers, audit results, etc. Take with as large a grain of salt as you'd like, but at least it is a primary source on the topic. Apple naturally will be tightlipped during their investigation of these incidents, but I'm curious how they will be covered in their subsequent publications.
  - fastball 6y ago
    > hold Apple and their executives criminally responsible What crime was committed?
- CivBase 6y ago
  > Note that immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation refusing to award them any more work and requiring them to resolve the issues. Apple is currently incentivized to stay naive about the labor conditions of their manufacturing partners. As long as they can maintain ignorance, it's difficult to hold them accountable. We should demand better from a company as massive and profitable as Apple.
- akritrime 6y ago
  Hmm, I was not putting the blame on Apple here, rather Wistron. While indirectly, Apple may be responsible for Wistron's behavior, most of the fault lies with Wistron and how they are used to treat their employees as disposable, while chasing higher margins.
- tooltalk 6y ago
  >> Governments really need to do the heavy lifting though ... Companies like Apple outsource their assembly lines to unscrupolous contract manufacturers in 3rd world countries with substandard labor/human rights/environmental practices precisely to avoid the "heavy lifting" from gov't at home and also hopefully deflect the blames when their shenanigans get exposed. They feign fake outrage, send fake instigators; then "suspend" until the bad PR dies down -- wash, rinse, repeat! Tim Apple, aka, Apple's "supply-chain-genius", seems like he knows what he's doing. In the meantime, at home Tim Apple and his cohorts parade around making feel-good virtue signals on everything from environment, to racism, to immigration, to equality, to privacy, to you name it, so Apple's fan base can feel less guilt and blissfully turn a blind eye to abuses in the 3rd world. >> apart from refusing to hand over money/work they are very limited in what they can do. money talks, bs walks. Apple's money has far more leverage than empty promises from politicians in most underdeveloped world. It's just that Apple is really interested in cutting cost at sweatshop factories and making money, not promoting some idealistic goals Apple purported to stand up for at home.

threeseed 6y ago

Note that immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation refusing to award them any more work and requiring them to resolve the issues. Governments really need to do the heavy lifting though because apart from refusing to hand over money/work they are very limited in what they can do.

gthtjtkt 6y ago
> immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation That's far too late and at that point they had no choice. They deserve no credit for doing it.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  They deserve credit for changing behavior, but their policy should be proactive not reactive. This ought to be embedded into their branding such that they profit from their stance on human rights while also making it a desirable marketing point for competitors. (And surely they can afford to)
onepointsixC 6y ago
I respectfully disagree. The only heavy lifting that governments need is to hold Apple and their executives criminally responsible. Apple has shown ruthless effectiveness in tracking down leakers and prosecuting them. But making sure the workers who are making their parts and assembling their devices aren't slaves or being abused is a bridge too far for the richest company in the world? I don't believe it. It's Apple's responsibility, and if achieving such a goal in some backwater is too difficult then maybe it shouldn't have been doing business there in the first place.
- rgovostes 6y ago
  They do publish an annual Supplier Responsibility Report. It's been a while since I read it, but they've definitely found and punished misbehaving suppliers. I think I remember one instance where underage workers were discovered and Apple forced the supplier to finance their higher education. In another they found a false wall had been installed in a factory to conceal hazardously stored chemicals and, again if memory serves, immediately terminated the supplier's contract. https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ According to HN search this is the only comment in over 600 that mentions this page. Beyond the marketing text, the PDFs at the bottom cover thousands of pages of supplier guidelines, government filings, lists of suppliers, audit results, etc. Take with as large a grain of salt as you'd like, but at least it is a primary source on the topic. Apple naturally will be tightlipped during their investigation of these incidents, but I'm curious how they will be covered in their subsequent publications.
- fastball 6y ago
  > hold Apple and their executives criminally responsible What crime was committed?
CivBase 6y ago
> Note that immediately after this become public, Apple put Wistron on probation refusing to award them any more work and requiring them to resolve the issues. Apple is currently incentivized to stay naive about the labor conditions of their manufacturing partners. As long as they can maintain ignorance, it's difficult to hold them accountable. We should demand better from a company as massive and profitable as Apple.
akritrime 6y ago
Hmm, I was not putting the blame on Apple here, rather Wistron. While indirectly, Apple may be responsible for Wistron's behavior, most of the fault lies with Wistron and how they are used to treat their employees as disposable, while chasing higher margins.
tooltalk 6y ago
>> Governments really need to do the heavy lifting though ... Companies like Apple outsource their assembly lines to unscrupolous contract manufacturers in 3rd world countries with substandard labor/human rights/environmental practices precisely to avoid the "heavy lifting" from gov't at home and also hopefully deflect the blames when their shenanigans get exposed. They feign fake outrage, send fake instigators; then "suspend" until the bad PR dies down -- wash, rinse, repeat! Tim Apple, aka, Apple's "supply-chain-genius", seems like he knows what he's doing. In the meantime, at home Tim Apple and his cohorts parade around making feel-good virtue signals on everything from environment, to racism, to immigration, to equality, to privacy, to you name it, so Apple's fan base can feel less guilt and blissfully turn a blind eye to abuses in the 3rd world. >> apart from refusing to hand over money/work they are very limited in what they can do. money talks, bs walks. Apple's money has far more leverage than empty promises from politicians in most underdeveloped world. It's just that Apple is really interested in cutting cost at sweatshop factories and making money, not promoting some idealistic goals Apple purported to stand up for at home.