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Interesting how you keep emphasizing the word responsible, as if saying that word loudly enough is sufficient to make up for structural racism and sexism, a leg

Interesting how you keep emphasizing the word responsible, as if saying that word loudly enough is sufficient to make up for structural racism and sexism, a legacy of racially skewed criminal records, uneven economic growth in different towns/regions and unpredictable, life-altering medical debt (to name a few concerns).

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Those all can matter. But responsible vs irresponsible also matters. Given the same external circumstances, responsible behavior should lead to better outcomes on average. I explicitly deny that we are completely at the mercy of external forces. Our choices have effects that matter.
- standardUser 6y ago
  Being black, female, gay, etc are not usually considered choices, but are variously correlated with lower pay, higher unemployment, increased interactions with law enforcement, disproportionately high penalties from the justice system, worse medical outcomes and so on. Then there's the luck issue. If you get in a car accident in the wrong place with poor insurance, that helicopter ride and subsequent treatment can completely decimate the finances of a middle or lower income household for a generation. But yeah, if you're a white straight man and you're able to dodge any crippling medical bills, it doesn't take much more than responsibility to sustain a decent life.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    OK, since you seem to have totally ignored my point, let me try again. If you're black, female, gay, etc, you may well have lower pay, higher unemployment, increased interaction with law enforcement, etc. That's all true, and is something that we as a society should work on changing. But within that flawed social environment, black female gay people who decide, say, to use their spare time to try to pick up new skills will probably have better outcomes on average than those in the exact same circumstances who decide to lose themselves in alcohol. The environment is flawed. Within that flawed environment, individual choices still matter.
    - balls187 6y ago
      The consequences of irresponsibility (or individual choices) are far greater the less income you have. Looking at race specifically, and it the disparity is even higher. The consequence of a broken tail light should impact every American the same. It does not. Likewise, the consequence of a DUI should also impact every American the same. It does not.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

Those all can matter. But responsible vs irresponsible also matters. Given the same external circumstances, responsible behavior should lead to better outcomes on average. I explicitly deny that we are completely at the mercy of external forces. Our choices have effects that matter.

standardUser 6y ago
Being black, female, gay, etc are not usually considered choices, but are variously correlated with lower pay, higher unemployment, increased interactions with law enforcement, disproportionately high penalties from the justice system, worse medical outcomes and so on. Then there's the luck issue. If you get in a car accident in the wrong place with poor insurance, that helicopter ride and subsequent treatment can completely decimate the finances of a middle or lower income household for a generation. But yeah, if you're a white straight man and you're able to dodge any crippling medical bills, it doesn't take much more than responsibility to sustain a decent life.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  OK, since you seem to have totally ignored my point, let me try again. If you're black, female, gay, etc, you may well have lower pay, higher unemployment, increased interaction with law enforcement, etc. That's all true, and is something that we as a society should work on changing. But within that flawed social environment, black female gay people who decide, say, to use their spare time to try to pick up new skills will probably have better outcomes on average than those in the exact same circumstances who decide to lose themselves in alcohol. The environment is flawed. Within that flawed environment, individual choices still matter.
  - balls187 6y ago
    The consequences of irresponsibility (or individual choices) are far greater the less income you have. Looking at race specifically, and it the disparity is even higher. The consequence of a broken tail light should impact every American the same. It does not. Likewise, the consequence of a DUI should also impact every American the same. It does not.