4 ms·

I don't think it's comparable no. The effort put by Fairphone to build an ethical tech company is not comparable with what apple have been doing. There's a lot

by boudin 6y ago

I don't think it's comparable no. The effort put by Fairphone to build an ethical tech company is not comparable with what apple have been doing. There's a lot of information on their website and it's worth to have a look: https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact

diebeforei485 6y ago
I mean, Apple also has a lot of information on their website and it's also worth looking at: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ They also have annual reports for the past few years just about this.
- simonh 6y ago
  And Apple are also the highest rated tech company by Greenpeace for environmental issues after Fairphone.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-impossible-deemed-future-e-waste-ifixit-2465348 http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recycling-firm-for-reselling-100000-devices-instead-of-destroying-them/ https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489
    - simonh 6y ago
      Repair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impact. “..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0] The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s. [0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h... Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1] [1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long... The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2] [2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html
      - fsflover 6y ago
        > but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. This typically happens in 5 years, which is not too bad, but it's far from being perfect. Why should a smartphone be supported for much shorter than laptops? Remember: reduce, reuse, recycle, in this order. Librem 5 GNU/Linux phone has a lifetime support with updates.
        simonh 6y ago
        > After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. Where on Earth do you get that from? My iPhone 3GS could still connect to the App Store after 7 years. My wife’s iPhone 6 from 2014 just got a patch in November. Look, I’m not going to assume bad faith, maybe you really believe this or thought it seemed true to you. When your preconceptions turn out to be this dramatically contrary to the actual facts, I seriously suggest you take a look at what it is about those preconceptions that is leading you so far away from reality. I see comments like this all the time. Apple devices have built in redundancy, yet in fact they have industry leading device support and lifetimes. Apple is an arch polluter, yet over here in reality they have the highest environmental rating from Greenpeace of any major smartphone vendor. Where do people like you get this stuff, and why? What is it that’s motivating you to say these things that are so clearly wrong and we easily disproved?
        fsflover 6y ago
        > but there’s nothing that will brick them You simply should not use a smartphone without security updates. It's as good as a brick in this case. (Or maybe never use Internet and Bluetooth on it).
        simonh 6y ago
        So which OS or phone are you going to go with? Google only guarantees 3 years of support. Fairphone 2’s last OS update was 14 months ago, there’s no way that’s up to date with security issues so their track record is looking pretty dicey. After all they’re dependent on Google as well. Even if they do eventually get another update there’s no way a 14 month gap between security patches is acceptable. Fairphone only actually guarantee 2 years of support anyway. So what phone do you use that can beat the iPhone 6 with 6 years of regular patches?
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      Apple has official repair locations all over the planet and they stock parts long after products are discontinued. Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts. For my pixel 2, while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing. There were also no places to buy the camera other than what seemed to be cameras stripped out of broken/stolen pixel 2s.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        > while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing. You just presented a technical restriction, didn't you? > but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts. I disagree. This is not so much about DIY-repairs, but about a free market for third-party repairs, without which Apple can force people to pay as much as they want.
      - rtx 6y ago
        I recently went for an iPad repair, they asked me to do a replacement instead of repair.
      - tatersolid 6y ago
        > Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair... Just had the screen on a 2018 iPad replaced by a third party. Worked out fine. Is 3rd-party repair “killed” only for the latest Apple devices by virtue of some new hardware attestation stuff?

by boudin 6y ago

diebeforei485 6y ago

I mean, Apple also has a lot of information on their website and it's also worth looking at: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ They also have annual reports for the past few years just about this.

simonh 6y ago
And Apple are also the highest rated tech company by Greenpeace for environmental issues after Fairphone.
- fsflover 6y ago
  That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair: http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-impossible-deemed-future-e-waste-ifixit-2465348 http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs... https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recycling-firm-for-reselling-100000-devices-instead-of-destroying-them/ https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489
  - simonh 6y ago
    Repair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impact. “..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0] The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s. [0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h... Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1] [1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long... The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2] [2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. This typically happens in 5 years, which is not too bad, but it's far from being perfect. Why should a smartphone be supported for much shorter than laptops? Remember: reduce, reuse, recycle, in this order. Librem 5 GNU/Linux phone has a lifetime support with updates.
      - simonh 6y ago
        > After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. Where on Earth do you get that from? My iPhone 3GS could still connect to the App Store after 7 years. My wife’s iPhone 6 from 2014 just got a patch in November. Look, I’m not going to assume bad faith, maybe you really believe this or thought it seemed true to you. When your preconceptions turn out to be this dramatically contrary to the actual facts, I seriously suggest you take a look at what it is about those preconceptions that is leading you so far away from reality. I see comments like this all the time. Apple devices have built in redundancy, yet in fact they have industry leading device support and lifetimes. Apple is an arch polluter, yet over here in reality they have the highest environmental rating from Greenpeace of any major smartphone vendor. Where do people like you get this stuff, and why? What is it that’s motivating you to say these things that are so clearly wrong and we easily disproved?
        fsflover 6y ago
        > but there’s nothing that will brick them You simply should not use a smartphone without security updates. It's as good as a brick in this case. (Or maybe never use Internet and Bluetooth on it).
        simonh 6y ago
        So which OS or phone are you going to go with? Google only guarantees 3 years of support. Fairphone 2’s last OS update was 14 months ago, there’s no way that’s up to date with security issues so their track record is looking pretty dicey. After all they’re dependent on Google as well. Even if they do eventually get another update there’s no way a 14 month gap between security patches is acceptable. Fairphone only actually guarantee 2 years of support anyway. So what phone do you use that can beat the iPhone 6 with 6 years of regular patches?
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
    Apple has official repair locations all over the planet and they stock parts long after products are discontinued. Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts. For my pixel 2, while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing. There were also no places to buy the camera other than what seemed to be cameras stripped out of broken/stolen pixel 2s.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing. You just presented a technical restriction, didn't you? > but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts. I disagree. This is not so much about DIY-repairs, but about a free market for third-party repairs, without which Apple can force people to pay as much as they want.
    - rtx 6y ago
      I recently went for an iPad repair, they asked me to do a replacement instead of repair.
    - tatersolid 6y ago
      > Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair... Just had the screen on a 2018 iPad replaced by a third party. Worked out fine. Is 3rd-party repair “killed” only for the latest Apple devices by virtue of some new hardware attestation stuff?