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I think it's healthiest to regard these guidelines as an advertisement from the most effective lobbyists of the food industry, cloaked as a scientific analysis

I think it's healthiest to regard these guidelines as an advertisement from the most effective lobbyists of the food industry, cloaked as a scientific analysis from an agency that wasn't so much captured by that industry, as conceived and built by it from the start. That doesn't mean it's all wrong, just that the right parts are those that accidentally coincide with dominant industry interests.

bohemian99 6y ago
Advice to cut sugar and alcohol consumption would go against the lobbyists for the most powerful industries, right? I think the parts that are right are not those that coincide with industry interests but those that go against industry interests. Those parts are probably directionally correct but have softened language due to lobbying.
- hirundo 6y ago
  Yes, the food industry doesn't exist in a vacuum and they are painfully aware of that. They routinely compromise and tailor their advertising message for the zeitgeist. I think this mild improvement is an example.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  Where I live in the US, being a teetotaler is weirder than be a black Jewish, Chinese person. The latter can be understood and interesting to many. The former means "you're not with it and you must be an asshole."
- Aerroon 6y ago
  The problem is that we don't really know what dietary guidelines should be. Whether industry lobbying is involved or not doesn't really change that nutrition isn't something we've figured out. Going by "gut feel" will probably provide similar or better results.
jklinger410 6y ago
As long as this persists it's a wide open attack vector for conspiracy theorists. Science has a credibility issue.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Where is the science here? This is a government document. Government has the real credibility issue.
  - a3n 6y ago
    The advisory panel's science is in the government's trash can. Industry has been served.
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
It reminds me of "numbers don't lie but liars use numbers"
- arcticbull 6y ago
  "Figures don't lie but liars sometimes figure"
- terr-dav 6y ago
  A tool isn’t bad or good, but capitalism incentivizes people to hoard them and rent them out to make a profit by exploiting other people’s labor. (Sorry, that escalated quickly)
watwut 6y ago
The refused recommendation is "lowering the limit for alcoholic beverages for men to one drink per day from two, matching the guidance for women". With sugar, they left 10% of calories intake refusing to change it to 6% od calories intake. Hardly an outrage that recommended make alcohol consumption stayed the same instead of being the same as female one. I am quite feminist and still ... like ... admit that average malé body and female body are not perfectly equal when it comes to alcohol.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  Though I'm always suspicious of why those limits aren't simply zero. I'm not sure who out there is done a favor by being told that some alcohol and added sugar is fine when a better mindset is to be aware that it's pure indulgence that has nothing to do with nutrition. To me it's like lowering the daily fiber recommendation just to make people feel better about constantly undershooting it.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  That sugar intake would be realistic if the FDA could say 0 added sugars in I dunno...every single bread product? Even healthy 12 grain bread SERVING has about 5g of added sugar. 15g is about 1 tablespoon so in total a half loaf can have up to several tablespoons. And that's on the good end! These guidelines always sound like hopes and dreams in the US. Companies just pump their foods with sugar to bump up calories or make it taste better. You can only get such minimal sugar in your diet if you exclusively go on keto-like diet.
  - thechao 6y ago
    If you cut sugar out of your diet, you end up eating a lot of vegetables. A lot. I also make a lot of my own sauces; it’s annoying, but they taste better, anyways. Dried pasta & beans don’t have added sugar. If you stick to butcher meat (chickens, turkey, beef), they don’t add sugar to those. However, it is very much a diet that requires time.
    - sizzle 6y ago

bohemian99 6y ago

Advice to cut sugar and alcohol consumption would go against the lobbyists for the most powerful industries, right? I think the parts that are right are not those that coincide with industry interests but those that go against industry interests. Those parts are probably directionally correct but have softened language due to lobbying.

hirundo 6y ago
Yes, the food industry doesn't exist in a vacuum and they are painfully aware of that. They routinely compromise and tailor their advertising message for the zeitgeist. I think this mild improvement is an example.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Where I live in the US, being a teetotaler is weirder than be a black Jewish, Chinese person. The latter can be understood and interesting to many. The former means "you're not with it and you must be an asshole."
Aerroon 6y ago
The problem is that we don't really know what dietary guidelines should be. Whether industry lobbying is involved or not doesn't really change that nutrition isn't something we've figured out. Going by "gut feel" will probably provide similar or better results.

jklinger410 6y ago

As long as this persists it's a wide open attack vector for conspiracy theorists. Science has a credibility issue.

jjeaff 6y ago
Where is the science here? This is a government document. Government has the real credibility issue.
- a3n 6y ago
  The advisory panel's science is in the government's trash can. Industry has been served.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago

It reminds me of "numbers don't lie but liars use numbers"

arcticbull 6y ago
"Figures don't lie but liars sometimes figure"
terr-dav 6y ago
A tool isn’t bad or good, but capitalism incentivizes people to hoard them and rent them out to make a profit by exploiting other people’s labor. (Sorry, that escalated quickly)

watwut 6y ago

The refused recommendation is "lowering the limit for alcoholic beverages for men to one drink per day from two, matching the guidance for women". With sugar, they left 10% of calories intake refusing to change it to 6% od calories intake. Hardly an outrage that recommended make alcohol consumption stayed the same instead of being the same as female one. I am quite feminist and still ... like ... admit that average malé body and female body are not perfectly equal when it comes to alcohol.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
Though I'm always suspicious of why those limits aren't simply zero. I'm not sure who out there is done a favor by being told that some alcohol and added sugar is fine when a better mindset is to be aware that it's pure indulgence that has nothing to do with nutrition. To me it's like lowering the daily fiber recommendation just to make people feel better about constantly undershooting it.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
That sugar intake would be realistic if the FDA could say 0 added sugars in I dunno...every single bread product? Even healthy 12 grain bread SERVING has about 5g of added sugar. 15g is about 1 tablespoon so in total a half loaf can have up to several tablespoons. And that's on the good end! These guidelines always sound like hopes and dreams in the US. Companies just pump their foods with sugar to bump up calories or make it taste better. You can only get such minimal sugar in your diet if you exclusively go on keto-like diet.
- thechao 6y ago
  If you cut sugar out of your diet, you end up eating a lot of vegetables. A lot. I also make a lot of my own sauces; it’s annoying, but they taste better, anyways. Dried pasta & beans don’t have added sugar. If you stick to butcher meat (chickens, turkey, beef), they don’t add sugar to those. However, it is very much a diet that requires time.
  - sizzle 6y ago