4 ms·

The main advantage 'the man' has is organization and unit cohesion. Riots look fun on TV. and then you're in one. And you've only met these protesters casually

The main advantage 'the man' has is organization and unit cohesion. Riots look fun on TV. and then you're in one. And you've only met these protesters casually a few times. Are you ready to take a beat down for them? And are you willing to fight hard against a tight unit like LEO or the military who have a lot more weapons to escalate with.

Fnoord 6y ago
I believe a better question to ask yourself in such a situation is "Are you ready to avoid senseless violence?" ie. "is this worth it?" I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. I'm biased, sure, but still if you are in such situation you need to stop for a moment and think about such questions. Whenever I went to demonstrations -and, granted, its been a while since War in Iraq started- I made a very conscious decision about this beforehand. Its part of planning, because it might affect your OPSEC (things such as your possessions and your planned behavior). I also believe its not a valid comparison between physical violence and emotional violence (such as threats). I'm currently reading Ronan Farrow's Catch and Kill, and I keep thinking: "now this is a fight worth fighting for". I'm at 2/3 and I have not read about physical violence [against the reporter, Farrow; not referring to the violated women!] as of yet.
- erdos4d 6y ago
  > I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. As many protesters will tell you, in a lot of cases the police start the fight. Are you saying you're okay with them being able to just silence you? What do you propose doing when they use violence to shut down your protest?
  - closeparen 6y ago
    >them being able to just silence you A protest is ordinarily not a story. The police suppressing a protest is a story. Protestors understand this, and there's a whole romanticism around getting arrested on camera.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      A protest is ordinarily not a story. Over the last month we've seen the strongest proof of this that one could imagine. In India, 250 million farmers and associated union members went on strike. Somehow this event went completely unreported by USA journalists. In nations where the USA "defense" department could conceivably waste more money, the threshold is considerably lower than 250M... more like, say, ten? Twenty? Possibly a hundred protesters in Syria or Hong Kong would be worth a report.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Sorry, I do not believe the police in uniform are the ones who start the fight. Not in my (democratic) country, at least. Instead, you need to announce a permit for a demonstration. If you don't have one, the police will tell you to leave the premise. If you fail to comply, you might get arrested, even if you don't use violence. But the part where protestors fail to comply with (reasonable and legal) instructions by the police is the part you omit. Whereas I never got into trouble with the police. Partly because I got the popular skin colour, gender, etc but also because I know when to be obedient and sincere. I can only recommend the same. Pick your battles!
    - tw25567659 6y ago
      > I do not believe the police in uniform are the ones who start the fight. If they did, you would see police initiating physical violence against a group of otherwise non-violent protesters. > Instead, you need to... Or else, you would see police initiating physical violence against a group of otherwise non-violent protesters. In a brutal dictatorship, violent suppression of dissent is direct and obvious. In your democratic country it is hidden among "reasonable and legal" stages; this keeps the Good Citizens [1] obedient and sincere. ---- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German
LunaSea 6y ago
I think that the biggest advantage the "man" has is the law. If violence is perpetrated against the police, preparators will go to jail. That is however not the case when done by anti-riot police. These asymmetrical rules prevent much from happening.
- wavefunction 6y ago
  Jail is probably the best possible outcome for someone who uses violence against the police, justified or not. As you note the color of law (and usually sympathy of the public as well) is the greatest of the asymmetrical assets of law enforcement and so the police at least in the US have the opportunity to assault or kill you with little or no legal liability.

Fnoord 6y ago

I believe a better question to ask yourself in such a situation is "Are you ready to avoid senseless violence?" ie. "is this worth it?" I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. I'm biased, sure, but still if you are in such situation you need to stop for a moment and think about such questions. Whenever I went to demonstrations -and, granted, its been a while since War in Iraq started- I made a very conscious decision about this beforehand. Its part of planning, because it might affect your OPSEC (things such as your possessions and your planned behavior). I also believe its not a valid comparison between physical violence and emotional violence (such as threats). I'm currently reading Ronan Farrow's Catch and Kill, and I keep thinking: "now this is a fight worth fighting for". I'm at 2/3 and I have not read about physical violence [against the reporter, Farrow; not referring to the violated women!] as of yet.

erdos4d 6y ago
> I don't believe is worth fighting police during a demonstration. As many protesters will tell you, in a lot of cases the police start the fight. Are you saying you're okay with them being able to just silence you? What do you propose doing when they use violence to shut down your protest?
- closeparen 6y ago
  >them being able to just silence you A protest is ordinarily not a story. The police suppressing a protest is a story. Protestors understand this, and there's a whole romanticism around getting arrested on camera.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    A protest is ordinarily not a story. Over the last month we've seen the strongest proof of this that one could imagine. In India, 250 million farmers and associated union members went on strike. Somehow this event went completely unreported by USA journalists. In nations where the USA "defense" department could conceivably waste more money, the threshold is considerably lower than 250M... more like, say, ten? Twenty? Possibly a hundred protesters in Syria or Hong Kong would be worth a report.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Sorry, I do not believe the police in uniform are the ones who start the fight. Not in my (democratic) country, at least. Instead, you need to announce a permit for a demonstration. If you don't have one, the police will tell you to leave the premise. If you fail to comply, you might get arrested, even if you don't use violence. But the part where protestors fail to comply with (reasonable and legal) instructions by the police is the part you omit. Whereas I never got into trouble with the police. Partly because I got the popular skin colour, gender, etc but also because I know when to be obedient and sincere. I can only recommend the same. Pick your battles!
  - tw25567659 6y ago
    > I do not believe the police in uniform are the ones who start the fight. If they did, you would see police initiating physical violence against a group of otherwise non-violent protesters. > Instead, you need to... Or else, you would see police initiating physical violence against a group of otherwise non-violent protesters. In a brutal dictatorship, violent suppression of dissent is direct and obvious. In your democratic country it is hidden among "reasonable and legal" stages; this keeps the Good Citizens [1] obedient and sincere. ---- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German

LunaSea 6y ago

I think that the biggest advantage the "man" has is the law. If violence is perpetrated against the police, preparators will go to jail. That is however not the case when done by anti-riot police. These asymmetrical rules prevent much from happening.

wavefunction 6y ago
Jail is probably the best possible outcome for someone who uses violence against the police, justified or not. As you note the color of law (and usually sympathy of the public as well) is the greatest of the asymmetrical assets of law enforcement and so the police at least in the US have the opportunity to assault or kill you with little or no legal liability.