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I suspect many who believe in meritocracy are already successful people who like to tell themselves they got there by merely being so much smarter than everyone

I suspect many who believe in meritocracy are already successful people who like to tell themselves they got there by merely being so much smarter than everyone else around them, dismissing the access, luck, (i.e. quality of schools they were born near), family wealth etc. almost entirely as a factor.

sanxiyn 6y ago
I am not sure how getting there by being smarter is any better. It's not like anyone spent any effort to be smart, it's just genetic lottery.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  How is "being smart" a genetic lottery? Are you serious? That brings up all sorts of implications with race and whatnot. "Being smart" is often a proxy for the things the GP mentions: strong stable family, access to good schooling, and a sprinkle of luck.
  - sanxiyn 6y ago
    Heritability of IQ is >50%, and IQ is a good measure of smartness.
    - afuchs 6y ago
      The previous comment's argument appears to be that heritability of "being smart" is not strictly limited to genetic factors, that measures of "smartness" such as an IQ score also measure other factors that are not strictly related to genetics
    - PeterisP 6y ago
      Heritability and genetic factors are overlapping but distinct things - for example, socioeconomic status influences many aspects, is hereditary but not genetic.
      - sanxiyn 6y ago
        Heritability is in fact entirely genetic. It is estimated by comparing monozygotic twins with dizygotic twins.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Their parents likely spent effort (in assortive mating, proper nutrition, early stimulative interactions, etc.) You could call placing 99 green balls and 1 red ball into a bin and picking out 2 green balls a “lottery”, I suppose.
esc_colon_q 6y ago
I personally just think everything works better when the best people are in charge and rewarded for being the best. Yes, there's tons of luck, and it's not fair in any "everyone deserves a shot" sense. Still a better strategy, because most people are bad at most things. We should take care of them, but we should not pretend they're competent if they're not.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > I personally just think everything works better when the best people are in charge and rewarded for being the best. The problem is that they're not necessarily the best i.e. some poor person if given the same resources, education, access etc. might in fact do a lot better with what they have, we'll just never know. I mean if you look at the state of today's world, handling of COVID, shams like Nikola etc. are these really the 'best' people humanity has to offer?

sanxiyn 6y ago

I am not sure how getting there by being smarter is any better. It's not like anyone spent any effort to be smart, it's just genetic lottery.

Dirlewanger 6y ago
How is "being smart" a genetic lottery? Are you serious? That brings up all sorts of implications with race and whatnot. "Being smart" is often a proxy for the things the GP mentions: strong stable family, access to good schooling, and a sprinkle of luck.
- sanxiyn 6y ago
  Heritability of IQ is >50%, and IQ is a good measure of smartness.
  - afuchs 6y ago
    The previous comment's argument appears to be that heritability of "being smart" is not strictly limited to genetic factors, that measures of "smartness" such as an IQ score also measure other factors that are not strictly related to genetics
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    Heritability and genetic factors are overlapping but distinct things - for example, socioeconomic status influences many aspects, is hereditary but not genetic.
    - sanxiyn 6y ago
      Heritability is in fact entirely genetic. It is estimated by comparing monozygotic twins with dizygotic twins.
sokoloff 6y ago
Their parents likely spent effort (in assortive mating, proper nutrition, early stimulative interactions, etc.) You could call placing 99 green balls and 1 red ball into a bin and picking out 2 green balls a “lottery”, I suppose.

esc_colon_q 6y ago

I personally just think everything works better when the best people are in charge and rewarded for being the best. Yes, there's tons of luck, and it's not fair in any "everyone deserves a shot" sense. Still a better strategy, because most people are bad at most things. We should take care of them, but we should not pretend they're competent if they're not.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> I personally just think everything works better when the best people are in charge and rewarded for being the best. The problem is that they're not necessarily the best i.e. some poor person if given the same resources, education, access etc. might in fact do a lot better with what they have, we'll just never know. I mean if you look at the state of today's world, handling of COVID, shams like Nikola etc. are these really the 'best' people humanity has to offer?