4 ms·

Obviously, major cities' housing costs have increased beyond the rate of inflation due to a variety of reasons, chief among them being the finite amount of land

Obviously, major cities' housing costs have increased beyond the rate of inflation due to a variety of reasons, chief among them being the finite amount of land and the growing number of people (not just population of the city, but rather the growing number of people who want to move to the city, which raises prices due to supply and demand). But the general point still stands that if one wants to live on 15 hours/week, as Keynes' suggested, it's certainly possible to do so (essentially everywhere but major metropolises) if one maintains a 1930s lifestyle.

pmiller2 6y ago
Okay, so, you can't live in NYC like you can in the 1930s. Where else can't you live? Or, rather, must one live in the middle of nowhere to live the 1930s idyll? If that's all you want to claim, then I claim I can live like a hunter gatherer from 19300 BCE in the middle of the woods. Big deal. You haven't shown me anything. Did you want to even begin to address how I can go to the doctor? Or are we conveniently leaving that out? I don't think you have even begun to touch the "general point."
- gamegoblin 6y ago
  As I stated in my previous comment, most major cities (i.e. national or global hubs) are probably implausible due to increased demand. But there are literally hundreds of mid-sized cities and thousands of smaller cities where it's as simple as described. Of course, you know this, and you know that's what I was saying, so I'm going to assume you're not really debating in good faith (or are seriously misreading what I'm saying). Edit: I had a peek at your comment history and saw this pattern repeated with other people. I regret getting involved in this thread.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Okay then. Let's look at a 1930s salary, and tell me how you afford all that stuff: > From 1935 to 1936 the median family income was $1,160. An annual wage of $1,000 or more placed a family in the middle-income range. The middle-income family did not have a surplus of income but did have a fairly comfortable standard of living. [0] Show me how I can pay a mortgage, eat, go to the doctor (still ignoring this one, I see), have a little entertainment every once in a while, etc. Actually, I'll make it easier on you. From the very same source: > Average Family Budget, 1935 > Income Amount, $ > Average annual income $1,348 > Expenses > Food and alcoholic beverages 472 > Housing, utilities, furnishings, etc. 456 > Clothing 136 > Automobile purchase and maintenance 73 > Medical care 53 > Recreation, reading, tobacco 72 > Taxes 5 > Miscellaneous expenses 5 > Total Expenses $1,272 Let's go ahead and inflate this typical 1935 family budget to today and see how we do. Note, these numbers are per year. It's easy, right? Let's simplify it a bit and just say it's a household of one, but you only get to live on ~1/3 of a median US individual income, currently around $43K. I'll give you $15K to work with. Hint: do medical care and housing first. Sorry, not my fault you regret biting off more than you can chew. You knew you couldn't do what you were claiming from the beginning. --- [0]: https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-and-education-magazines/everyday-life-1929-1941 https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-and-education-ma...
    - gamegoblin 6y ago
      I regret getting involved in the thread, not because I "bit off more than I can chew", but because having conversations where one person doesn't read what one says is kind of pointless. For instance, with regard to medical care, in my very first comment, I clearly stated: "Some costs in the US, medical being the primary example, are more expensive than they should be due to financial and political scheming." That said, if your income is < $15K/yr, you qualify for Medicaid. Insulin costs < $500/yr on Medicaid. I've already shown you in a previous comment how it's possible to live so cheaply in the modern day, because I and millions of other Americans literally have done it.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        I've been there, too. Let me tell you, at $15K, you had better hope you're young and healthy. If not, you're in for a world of financial hurt. It's kind of interesting that we have to rely on a social program that didn't exist until 1965 to live like the median 1935 person, though. Hm.

pmiller2 6y ago

Okay, so, you can't live in NYC like you can in the 1930s. Where else can't you live? Or, rather, must one live in the middle of nowhere to live the 1930s idyll? If that's all you want to claim, then I claim I can live like a hunter gatherer from 19300 BCE in the middle of the woods. Big deal. You haven't shown me anything. Did you want to even begin to address how I can go to the doctor? Or are we conveniently leaving that out? I don't think you have even begun to touch the "general point."

gamegoblin 6y ago
As I stated in my previous comment, most major cities (i.e. national or global hubs) are probably implausible due to increased demand. But there are literally hundreds of mid-sized cities and thousands of smaller cities where it's as simple as described. Of course, you know this, and you know that's what I was saying, so I'm going to assume you're not really debating in good faith (or are seriously misreading what I'm saying). Edit: I had a peek at your comment history and saw this pattern repeated with other people. I regret getting involved in this thread.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Okay then. Let's look at a 1930s salary, and tell me how you afford all that stuff: > From 1935 to 1936 the median family income was $1,160. An annual wage of $1,000 or more placed a family in the middle-income range. The middle-income family did not have a surplus of income but did have a fairly comfortable standard of living. [0] Show me how I can pay a mortgage, eat, go to the doctor (still ignoring this one, I see), have a little entertainment every once in a while, etc. Actually, I'll make it easier on you. From the very same source: > Average Family Budget, 1935 > Income Amount, $ > Average annual income $1,348 > Expenses > Food and alcoholic beverages 472 > Housing, utilities, furnishings, etc. 456 > Clothing 136 > Automobile purchase and maintenance 73 > Medical care 53 > Recreation, reading, tobacco 72 > Taxes 5 > Miscellaneous expenses 5 > Total Expenses $1,272 Let's go ahead and inflate this typical 1935 family budget to today and see how we do. Note, these numbers are per year. It's easy, right? Let's simplify it a bit and just say it's a household of one, but you only get to live on ~1/3 of a median US individual income, currently around $43K. I'll give you $15K to work with. Hint: do medical care and housing first. Sorry, not my fault you regret biting off more than you can chew. You knew you couldn't do what you were claiming from the beginning. --- [0]: https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-and-education-magazines/everyday-life-1929-1941 https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-and-education-ma...
  - gamegoblin 6y ago
    I regret getting involved in the thread, not because I "bit off more than I can chew", but because having conversations where one person doesn't read what one says is kind of pointless. For instance, with regard to medical care, in my very first comment, I clearly stated: "Some costs in the US, medical being the primary example, are more expensive than they should be due to financial and political scheming." That said, if your income is < $15K/yr, you qualify for Medicaid. Insulin costs < $500/yr on Medicaid. I've already shown you in a previous comment how it's possible to live so cheaply in the modern day, because I and millions of other Americans literally have done it.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I've been there, too. Let me tell you, at $15K, you had better hope you're young and healthy. If not, you're in for a world of financial hurt. It's kind of interesting that we have to rely on a social program that didn't exist until 1965 to live like the median 1935 person, though. Hm.