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Then, why do you ascribe value to Facebook and its ads for enabling the people you know to enter those occupations? That was literally your point, wasn't it?

Then, why do you ascribe value to Facebook and its ads for enabling the people you know to enter those occupations? That was literally your point, wasn't it? You just told me I could do the same thing, and get started by spending $10 to get my first client, right? Or am I misreading?

golergka 6y ago
Because lowering those barriers is what enabled the people I know to enter those occupations. I have to admit, I'm really confused by your question: are you under an impression that these professions either don't exist at all, or exist in one immutable state and cannot be democratised? This is not a binary dichotomy between two state. It's a continuum, and while Google and Facebook didn't create those occupations, they still have done a huge deal to improve them. There's no contradiction here.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  No. You are claiming that Facebook ads are a mechanism that lowers those barriers. I claim the barrier isn't that big to begin with for most of them (photographer, baker, astrologer, limo driver), and that, even if some of the others benefit from said ads [0], that the harm Facebook has created outweighs that benefit. Nay, this is the opposite of making the world a better place. Shame on thee, ye supposed best and brightest, ye best minds of my generation, destroyed by madness, who spend your days trying to get 1% more people to click on an ad. --- [0]: Which I actually doubt -- the internet as a whole is what lowers the barriers, not Facebook ads per se.
  - golergka 6y ago
    > I claim the barrier isn't that big to begin with for most of them Can you kindly back this claim up? I already brought forth a comparison between traditional and internet advertisement that you have not disproved. How would you get your customers for your one-person business without internet ads? > the harm Facebook has created You keep claiming it, and yet I'm to see any examples of that harm. Internet, including Facebook and Youtube enabled wider political discourse that existed before, all around the globe. If you happen to dislike some of that political discourse, then your problem is with other people's political opinions, not with the medium that they choose to exchange it. It's like being mad at a printing press because you don't like what's written in the paper. > the internet as a whole is what lowers the barriers, not Facebook ads per se. What is the internet if not the websites hosted on it? Facebook IS a part of the internet, so distinction between it and the internet "as a whole" is quite meaningless here. All properties that Facebook and Google have that we are discussing, are logical consequences of the internet. If it would happen to be Altavista and Livejournal, we would still have a pretty similar conversation about the very same software engineers working to optimise CTRs.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I don't have to show you how any of those businesses get customers without Facebook ads. You granted me that they exist without Facebook, therefore they must have customers. As for harms of Facebook, here are 6, from the most cursory google search ever: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-down-of-social-medias-effects-on-our-mental-health/?sh=7f5973d12e5a https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-d... Yes, Facebook is a part of the internet, but it's a part we don't need, and a part we should cut out and burn to the ground, just like we don't need fascists and racists and their so called "discourse."

golergka 6y ago

Because lowering those barriers is what enabled the people I know to enter those occupations. I have to admit, I'm really confused by your question: are you under an impression that these professions either don't exist at all, or exist in one immutable state and cannot be democratised? This is not a binary dichotomy between two state. It's a continuum, and while Google and Facebook didn't create those occupations, they still have done a huge deal to improve them. There's no contradiction here.

pmiller2 6y ago
No. You are claiming that Facebook ads are a mechanism that lowers those barriers. I claim the barrier isn't that big to begin with for most of them (photographer, baker, astrologer, limo driver), and that, even if some of the others benefit from said ads [0], that the harm Facebook has created outweighs that benefit. Nay, this is the opposite of making the world a better place. Shame on thee, ye supposed best and brightest, ye best minds of my generation, destroyed by madness, who spend your days trying to get 1% more people to click on an ad. --- [0]: Which I actually doubt -- the internet as a whole is what lowers the barriers, not Facebook ads per se.
- golergka 6y ago
  > I claim the barrier isn't that big to begin with for most of them Can you kindly back this claim up? I already brought forth a comparison between traditional and internet advertisement that you have not disproved. How would you get your customers for your one-person business without internet ads? > the harm Facebook has created You keep claiming it, and yet I'm to see any examples of that harm. Internet, including Facebook and Youtube enabled wider political discourse that existed before, all around the globe. If you happen to dislike some of that political discourse, then your problem is with other people's political opinions, not with the medium that they choose to exchange it. It's like being mad at a printing press because you don't like what's written in the paper. > the internet as a whole is what lowers the barriers, not Facebook ads per se. What is the internet if not the websites hosted on it? Facebook IS a part of the internet, so distinction between it and the internet "as a whole" is quite meaningless here. All properties that Facebook and Google have that we are discussing, are logical consequences of the internet. If it would happen to be Altavista and Livejournal, we would still have a pretty similar conversation about the very same software engineers working to optimise CTRs.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I don't have to show you how any of those businesses get customers without Facebook ads. You granted me that they exist without Facebook, therefore they must have customers. As for harms of Facebook, here are 6, from the most cursory google search ever: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-down-of-social-medias-effects-on-our-mental-health/?sh=7f5973d12e5a https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/06/30/a-run-d... Yes, Facebook is a part of the internet, but it's a part we don't need, and a part we should cut out and burn to the ground, just like we don't need fascists and racists and their so called "discourse."