4 ms·

This is a very insane statement. You need experience first. Fresh out of college, I was making $25k/yr in 2005. Within 4 years I was in the $40k~$50k range, but

This is a very insane statement. You need experience first. Fresh out of college, I was making $25k/yr in 2005. Within 4 years I was in the $40k~$50k range, but I also valued ... life, and living. I applied and got a holiday work visa (if you're under 30, they're ~$300 and you can live an work in another country for a year. Different countries have different agreements and age limits) and lived in Australia for a year and NZ for three. I also took a year off once and lived off of savings (and out of two bags and hostels). It wasn't until I lived in Seattle I was making six figures. It took a lot of experience and research and work to build up that level of expertise. It also took being in the right market (the west coast). If I had stayed in my home town, it wouldn't have been possible. (I wrote a post about tech markets for those who are interested: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/tech-culture-shock-from-america-to-the-south-pacific-and-seattle-to-chicago/ https://battlepenguin.com/tech/tech-culture-shock-from-ameri...) What you're describing is a tale that may be true for you, but it's the tale of someone who is determined to work at all odds to be at the top. If you want to live and do other things and have real adventures, you're not going to be in the same spot.

bigcorp-slave 6y ago
How much could a banana possibly cost? $10? Let’s just throw out one company as an example: let’s say you graduate from undergrad today and join Google as a fairly unremarkable new hire. Your average first year total compensation is $187k/year. If you negotiate well that can easily exceed $200k. If you do well in your career, three years later you’ll be an L4 earning an average of $263k/year. There are a number of companies that pay this well. All of FAANG is >$150k/year fresh out of undergrad. What I am saying is: if you decide early enough that you don’t want to be a wage slave your entire life, and you are talented and a bit lucky, you can wage slave for ten years and call it good, then spend 30-death doing whatever you want. The biggest danger, and one I’m wrestling with now, is that you get addicted to it. Thanks for providing the interesting article - sounds like you’ve lived a fun and variety-filled life so far. That’s fantastic and I’m a little jealous of you, but you compromised real economic utility by doing so. I think it’s a popular model, lots of people spend their 20s having adventures and making little money. Nothing wrong with that - but if instead you spend your twenties soullessly grinding away, thanks to the time-value of money you can have the rest of your life to have adventures. There are plenty of entry level jobs for people with bachelors degrees that pay $150k-$200k. You might have to make a lot of sacrifices to get them. For me, I didn’t graduate making this kind of money but ended up in the can-FIRE bucket anyway due to saving and market performance. But it wasn’t like it wasn’t possible, I was unaware that such jobs existed.
- fr11 6y ago
  twenty years ago it was common to make this argument about investment banking. I know a bunch of people who went into investment banking, claiming to intend to quit after a decade. A few did, but most did not. The problem seems to be that humans acclimate, and so spending ten years on an enormous salary puts most people in a place where they don't feel like they can live on the modest salary they'll have if they retire.
- rufus_foreman 6y ago
  Your original post was about "industries like software". The category of people who work in industries like software is much larger than the category of people who are hired by Google right out of college. If you are hired by Google right out of college, first of all, you are willingly participating in an evil organization. No excuses. But yes, if you are hired by Google right out of college you should have no problem doing FI/RE. Most of the software industry is writing CRUD apps for banks, insurance companies, and other similar large established corporations. You can still do FI/RE, but cut all the numbers in your examples by half, probably more.

bigcorp-slave 6y ago

How much could a banana possibly cost? $10? Let’s just throw out one company as an example: let’s say you graduate from undergrad today and join Google as a fairly unremarkable new hire. Your average first year total compensation is $187k/year. If you negotiate well that can easily exceed $200k. If you do well in your career, three years later you’ll be an L4 earning an average of $263k/year. There are a number of companies that pay this well. All of FAANG is >$150k/year fresh out of undergrad. What I am saying is: if you decide early enough that you don’t want to be a wage slave your entire life, and you are talented and a bit lucky, you can wage slave for ten years and call it good, then spend 30-death doing whatever you want. The biggest danger, and one I’m wrestling with now, is that you get addicted to it. Thanks for providing the interesting article - sounds like you’ve lived a fun and variety-filled life so far. That’s fantastic and I’m a little jealous of you, but you compromised real economic utility by doing so. I think it’s a popular model, lots of people spend their 20s having adventures and making little money. Nothing wrong with that - but if instead you spend your twenties soullessly grinding away, thanks to the time-value of money you can have the rest of your life to have adventures. There are plenty of entry level jobs for people with bachelors degrees that pay $150k-$200k. You might have to make a lot of sacrifices to get them. For me, I didn’t graduate making this kind of money but ended up in the can-FIRE bucket anyway due to saving and market performance. But it wasn’t like it wasn’t possible, I was unaware that such jobs existed.

fr11 6y ago
twenty years ago it was common to make this argument about investment banking. I know a bunch of people who went into investment banking, claiming to intend to quit after a decade. A few did, but most did not. The problem seems to be that humans acclimate, and so spending ten years on an enormous salary puts most people in a place where they don't feel like they can live on the modest salary they'll have if they retire.
rufus_foreman 6y ago
Your original post was about "industries like software". The category of people who work in industries like software is much larger than the category of people who are hired by Google right out of college. If you are hired by Google right out of college, first of all, you are willingly participating in an evil organization. No excuses. But yes, if you are hired by Google right out of college you should have no problem doing FI/RE. Most of the software industry is writing CRUD apps for banks, insurance companies, and other similar large established corporations. You can still do FI/RE, but cut all the numbers in your examples by half, probably more.