5 ms·

The article is a bit disingenuous. While this might bring the cost down, it's certainly not going to be an alternative to commercial flights. Let's look at a

by blhack 15y ago

The article is a bit disingenuous. While this might bring the cost down, it's certainly not going to be an alternative to commercial flights. Let's look at a flight that I would love to take right now: Phoenix to Seattle. Here is a map of the route you [could] take for this flight: http://wh98.fltplan.com/mapgenerator/index.cfm?UdTimer=40838&MapServiceName=fltplan&lon=-117.1&lat=40.44&wid=11.379&ht=16.515&iwd=928&iht=696&ZOOMTO=12345678&showmapmethod=imgsrc&mark=-112.011,33.435,red,;-111.97,33.4333,vor,;-112.48,34.7033,vor,DRK;-114.863,35.995,vor,BLD;-116.748,36.8,vor,BTY;-117.77,38.0033,vor,OAL;-119.656,39.5316,vor,FMG;-120.506,42.4933,vor,LKV;-122.31,47.435,vor,;-122.311,47.45,vor,;-122.311,47.45,red,KSEA,standalone;-112.011,33.435,red,KPHX,standalone http://wh98.fltplan.com/mapgenerator/index.cfm?UdTimer=40838... This 1028 miles, but lets say (for ease of calculation) that it's 1000 exactly. Now for an aircraft. The Citation V is a nice plane, holds about 7 people, and is something that would be appropriate for what the article seems to be describing. Cruising speed for this aircraft is 495mph[1], but again, for ease of calculation, say 500mph. Flight time is 2 hours each way, for four hours total. The citation 5 burns 210 gallons of fuel per hour of flight, so this means that round trip (4 hours), you're burning 840 gallons of fuel. Current fuel cost at Cutter Aviation in Phoenix is $5.58/gallon, so total fuel cost for this trip is 840 * 5.58 is $4687. That's just fuel. If there are 7 passengers, that is $669.6 per person. You still have to pay a crew, pay maintenance on the jet (which is an enormous cost), pay airport fees, pay administrative overhead, etc. [2] Estimates that cost/mile on a Citation V is $3.81 - My trip to Seattle costs $7620.0, or $1088 per person ($952/person if we use the jump seat). This now includes maintenance, but not administration, pilots, etc. I don't know about you guys, but that's not even remotely close to something that I can afford. According to hipmunk[3], even a super-short-notice flight to Seattle that leaves tomorrow is only $500. Even a first class flight is only $700. $700 is getting close to something comparable, but implying that this is something that is for more than just "the wealthy", is kindof wrong. Cool, but there is a reason only the very wealthy fly privately: flying privately is an absurdly expensive thing to do. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_V\ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_V\ [2]http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:edFt-3bDiGgJ:www.sterlingaviation.com/Group/PopularAircraftPDFs/Citation_V_specs.pdf+%22Citation+V%22+GPH&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESibEv814UmXQ3Uhp04uw4ONX_vGAaTE5HUXW1HPOW6xNI7KfoigPzl2OkDx-uuW177c28QYs8wnEqCT--dVQzDtUDjkw8cmmb7ptdLC5rab8EjQ6F1ka6Gmrc8XaFRta3VVx4Ia&sig=AHIEtbSxOvDElCOVYjY0tQTRrWtIRi0FKA&pli=1 http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:edFt-3bDiGgJ:w... [3]http://www.hipmunk.com/results?to=SEA&s=swz7fkx5vev&from=PHX http://www.hipmunk.com/results?to=SEA&s=swz7fkx5vev&... edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. The aviation industry has been screaming that this is the direction that commercial flight is going to take for quite some time now. I'm saying that the article's implication that the everyman can now fly "like you're rich" is a misrepresentation of what this service is actually aiming to do.

pavel_lishin 15y ago
I think it's aimed at the space between the average consumer - you or I - and Wealthy McGuy who owns or rents his own plane. The whole idea is aimed at people who can schedule a vacation for an indefinite time period - because there's no guarantee that the flight you want will actually fill up, you have to be very flexible with your vacation days, and that's not available to everyone.
JoshTriplett 15y ago
I think you've missed several huge things here. First, the plane goes specifically where you want it to go, on the schedule you need, modulo agreement with the other people who need it too (which tends to work out particularly well if going to the same event/destination). Second, "slightly more than a first-class ticket" seems a lot more appealing than "absurdly expensive". Third, no airport security circus to deal with. And fourth, note from the article that they take groups of varying sizes; they mentioned one group of 90 people who managed to fly cheaper than commercial.
hammock 15y ago
The article is a bit disingenuous. While this might bring the cost down, it's certainly not going to be an alternative to commercial flights. I think anyone with some common sense or basic economics knowledge would get that on average it's still going to be more expensive than a commercial flight. The point is that the use of social brings the price down.
rdl 15y ago
Phoenix to Seattle is not the market. Even if I owned a private plane, I'd probably fly commercial for hub to hub flights like that. (and almost definitely for super long haul point to point like SFO-HKG; it's reasonable to own or charter a Caravan or King Air or Citation II or something if you fly a lot with a group of people, but a G650 or BBJ3 is an order of magnitude more. I've been a passenger on a moderate number of business/corporate/government vs. super-rich-person jets, and a top quality commercial business class or most first class products are actually a more comfortable experience, at a much lower cost). A better market is for something like rural Texas to rural Montana; not hubs, and might require 3 flight segments each way (get to nearest hub, hub to hub, hub to destination); these can easily make a ~1000 mile flight into an all-day fiasco (plus, driving to the nearest commercial airport vs. a general aviation airport). Flying 4-6 people on those flights might be $2500/day per person, plus $1000+ in last minute tickets, plus hotel.

by blhack 15y ago

pavel_lishin 15y ago

I think it's aimed at the space between the average consumer - you or I - and Wealthy McGuy who owns or rents his own plane. The whole idea is aimed at people who can schedule a vacation for an indefinite time period - because there's no guarantee that the flight you want will actually fill up, you have to be very flexible with your vacation days, and that's not available to everyone.

JoshTriplett 15y ago

I think you've missed several huge things here. First, the plane goes specifically where you want it to go, on the schedule you need, modulo agreement with the other people who need it too (which tends to work out particularly well if going to the same event/destination). Second, "slightly more than a first-class ticket" seems a lot more appealing than "absurdly expensive". Third, no airport security circus to deal with. And fourth, note from the article that they take groups of varying sizes; they mentioned one group of 90 people who managed to fly cheaper than commercial.

hammock 15y ago

The article is a bit disingenuous. While this might bring the cost down, it's certainly not going to be an alternative to commercial flights. I think anyone with some common sense or basic economics knowledge would get that on average it's still going to be more expensive than a commercial flight. The point is that the use of social brings the price down.

rdl 15y ago

Phoenix to Seattle is not the market. Even if I owned a private plane, I'd probably fly commercial for hub to hub flights like that. (and almost definitely for super long haul point to point like SFO-HKG; it's reasonable to own or charter a Caravan or King Air or Citation II or something if you fly a lot with a group of people, but a G650 or BBJ3 is an order of magnitude more. I've been a passenger on a moderate number of business/corporate/government vs. super-rich-person jets, and a top quality commercial business class or most first class products are actually a more comfortable experience, at a much lower cost). A better market is for something like rural Texas to rural Montana; not hubs, and might require 3 flight segments each way (get to nearest hub, hub to hub, hub to destination); these can easily make a ~1000 mile flight into an all-day fiasco (plus, driving to the nearest commercial airport vs. a general aviation airport). Flying 4-6 people on those flights might be $2500/day per person, plus $1000+ in last minute tickets, plus hotel.