8 ms·

>I am always stunned that many (most/all) of these high tech gadgets lack a LOT of safety features. I’m not... no safety is what the free market will deliver i

>I am always stunned that many (most/all) of these high tech gadgets lack a LOT of safety features. I’m not... no safety is what the free market will deliver in the absence of regulations or liability or both.

enriquec 6y ago
then why were seatbelts and safety glass delivered by the free market? why are tesla's significantly safer than other manufacturers of their own free will? Why do they push updates that improve braking to customers that have already paid? Why does volvo specifically advertise their safety as a differentiator? Do you really think if a company could prove it provides double the survivability of accidents compared to others, the free market wouldn't reward it? Your claim simply doesn't match reality.
- datalus 6y ago
  The free market didn't deliver seat belts. Regulation had to step in and Ralph Nader lobbied the US govt to get it passed.
  - raisedbyninjas 6y ago
    Volvo sold the three point seatbelt for nine years before the US government required it.
    - celim307 6y ago
      That’s a little different, seatbelts save the lives of your customers
    - fakedang 6y ago
      Volvo is European too. The part we should be worried about is that it took 9 years for the govt to require it. 50 years from now, we'll be talking about how stupid it was that drones didn't have safety features.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Most automakers had them, they were just optional and so people didn't spend extra money on them and kept getting flung out of their cars. Volvo had them standard, but Volvo has also never been above 1% market share in the US [1]. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? [1] https://knoema.com/infographics/floslle/top-vehicle-manufacturers-in-the-us-market-1961-2016 https://knoema.com/infographics/floslle/top-vehicle-manufact...
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  You're actually proving yourself wrong here. Regulation and regulation alone provided us with seatbelts and safety glass. Car companies even ran a massive lobbying and advertising campaign to convince America seatbelts weren't necessary with slogans calling drivers in car accidents "the nut behind the wheel" https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nut-behind-wheel/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nut-behind-wheel/
  - enriquec 6y ago
    No, Volvo gave us seatbelts and the Tucker gave us safety glass. 9 years after the free market created seatbelts, the government mandated it. Mandates have never and will never manifest technological/scientific advancements out of nowhere.
    - nswest23 6y ago
      > Mandates have never and will never manifest technological/scientific advancements out of nowhere. I don't think that anyone is arguing that. I think the point is that the free market doesn't deliver these kind of safety features w/o the "incentive" of government mandates. Whether that is b/c the market doesn't demand those safety features in the absence of a mandate is another issue.
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  > why are tesla's significantly safer than other manufacturers of their own free will? Safer than who? Model T fords? How many Tesla's are on the road anyway? In which countries? What about Ferrari? Mercedes?

enriquec 6y ago

then why were seatbelts and safety glass delivered by the free market? why are tesla's significantly safer than other manufacturers of their own free will? Why do they push updates that improve braking to customers that have already paid? Why does volvo specifically advertise their safety as a differentiator? Do you really think if a company could prove it provides double the survivability of accidents compared to others, the free market wouldn't reward it? Your claim simply doesn't match reality.

datalus 6y ago
The free market didn't deliver seat belts. Regulation had to step in and Ralph Nader lobbied the US govt to get it passed.
- raisedbyninjas 6y ago
  Volvo sold the three point seatbelt for nine years before the US government required it.
  - celim307 6y ago
    That’s a little different, seatbelts save the lives of your customers
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Volvo is European too. The part we should be worried about is that it took 9 years for the govt to require it. 50 years from now, we'll be talking about how stupid it was that drones didn't have safety features.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Most automakers had them, they were just optional and so people didn't spend extra money on them and kept getting flung out of their cars. Volvo had them standard, but Volvo has also never been above 1% market share in the US [1]. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? [1] https://knoema.com/infographics/floslle/top-vehicle-manufacturers-in-the-us-market-1961-2016 https://knoema.com/infographics/floslle/top-vehicle-manufact...
bananabreakfast 6y ago
You're actually proving yourself wrong here. Regulation and regulation alone provided us with seatbelts and safety glass. Car companies even ran a massive lobbying and advertising campaign to convince America seatbelts weren't necessary with slogans calling drivers in car accidents "the nut behind the wheel" https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nut-behind-wheel/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nut-behind-wheel/
- enriquec 6y ago
  No, Volvo gave us seatbelts and the Tucker gave us safety glass. 9 years after the free market created seatbelts, the government mandated it. Mandates have never and will never manifest technological/scientific advancements out of nowhere.
  - nswest23 6y ago
    > Mandates have never and will never manifest technological/scientific advancements out of nowhere. I don't think that anyone is arguing that. I think the point is that the free market doesn't deliver these kind of safety features w/o the "incentive" of government mandates. Whether that is b/c the market doesn't demand those safety features in the absence of a mandate is another issue.
vagrantJin 6y ago
> why are tesla's significantly safer than other manufacturers of their own free will? Safer than who? Model T fords? How many Tesla's are on the road anyway? In which countries? What about Ferrari? Mercedes?