4 ms·

Any thoughts on the automated vertical farms that are starting to see good results?

by agf 6y ago

walleeee 6y ago
I think they may make sense in some locations. I don't see them scaling to replace traditional ag, barring some unforeseen advance yielding extremely cheap and plentiful clean energy. Besides significant power requirements, large construction projects come with large emissions footprints, as do synthetic fertilizers (it may be possible to repurpose existing buildings, and compost could help provide for some portion of nutrient needs; this would require a sea change in social and lifestyle conventions which is currently happening far too slowly). There are also real possibilities of supply chain and infrastructure unreliability due to increasingly frequent extreme weather events, geopolitical tensions, etc. What's most appropriate is likely highly context-dependent. I think a multi-pronged approach is best, and vertical farms could certainly play a role. Personally I see halting deforestation and fossil fuel use/extraction as the most urgent priority. I'm also a bit biased toward crop breeding/engineering for increased carbon uptake and soil sequestration (the lab I work in is pursuing this); it could help restore soil health while improving yield as well as resilience to environmental stressors. I don't know much about the details of vertical farming, though. If you have anything to share, I'd love to check it out.
- HenryKissinger 6y ago
  > I don't see them scaling to replace traditional ag That's funny, because I do see vertical farming scaling to replace 100% of two-dimensional (read: "traditional") agriculture, and feeding billions. Every city of over a million should have at least 15 skyscrapers with at least 30 floors each growing staples. Of course, we also need to switch to meat grown lab for > 75% of our meat demand and mostly stop producing cattle food with agriculture.
  - onecommentman 6y ago
    It might be a good idea to talk to any agricultural economist in any land grant university in the US before you invest your life savings on that being true in the US in the short/middle term. Or any US dirt farmer. Ag land is cheap in the US, as is water. Electricity and associated infrastructure is not, nor is building high-rise buildings. I’d guess even reclaiming land from the sea to add conventional farmland would be cheaper, if the numbers were run. On Mars, maybe another story...
  - walleeee 6y ago
    > That's funny, because I do see vertical farming scaling to replace 100% of two-dimensional (read: "traditional") agriculture, and feeding billions. If you can point me to any resources you've found to support this, I'd be happy to read them and revise my view. Besides the power/construction overhead, the infrastructure costs, and the lack of political will, many large coastal cities will likely see partial flooding and increasingly frequent weather events this century, while some are at risk of complete loss. The meat issue is complex. Lab-grown meat is subject to many of the same power and infrastructure constraints as vertical farming; I don't see it scaling to sustainably meet (meat? ;) current demand. We need a massive reduction in meat consumption in the developed world, but we also need to be conscious of the fact that ruminants remain critical to many agricultural ecosystems. We should certainly stop razing the Amazon for cattle pasture, although that will require a dramatic shift in economic incentives.
shmageggy 6y ago
There was a big thread on this yesterday https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25554941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25554941

Any thoughts on the automated vertical farms that are starting to see good results?

by agf 6y ago

Any thoughts on the automated vertical farms that are starting to see good results?

I think they may make sense in some locations. I don't see them scaling to replace traditional ag, barring some unforeseen advance yielding extremely cheap and plentiful clean energy. Besides significant power requirements, large construction projects come with large emissions footprints, as do synthetic fertilizers (it may be possible to repurpose existing buildings, and compost could help provide for some portion of nutrient needs; this would require a sea change in social and lifestyle conventions which is currently happening far too slowly). There are also real possibilities of supply chain and infrastructure unreliability due to increasingly frequent extreme weather events, geopolitical tensions, etc. What's most appropriate is likely highly context-dependent. I think a multi-pronged approach is best, and vertical farms could certainly play a role. Personally I see halting deforestation and fossil fuel use/extraction as the most urgent priority. I'm also a bit biased toward crop breeding/engineering for increased carbon uptake and soil sequestration (the lab I work in is pursuing this); it could help restore soil health while improving yield as well as resilience to environmental stressors. I don't know much about the details of vertical farming, though. If you have anything to share, I'd love to check it out.

HenryKissinger 6y ago
> I don't see them scaling to replace traditional ag That's funny, because I do see vertical farming scaling to replace 100% of two-dimensional (read: "traditional") agriculture, and feeding billions. Every city of over a million should have at least 15 skyscrapers with at least 30 floors each growing staples. Of course, we also need to switch to meat grown lab for > 75% of our meat demand and mostly stop producing cattle food with agriculture.
- onecommentman 6y ago
  It might be a good idea to talk to any agricultural economist in any land grant university in the US before you invest your life savings on that being true in the US in the short/middle term. Or any US dirt farmer. Ag land is cheap in the US, as is water. Electricity and associated infrastructure is not, nor is building high-rise buildings. I’d guess even reclaiming land from the sea to add conventional farmland would be cheaper, if the numbers were run. On Mars, maybe another story...
- walleeee 6y ago
  > That's funny, because I do see vertical farming scaling to replace 100% of two-dimensional (read: "traditional") agriculture, and feeding billions. If you can point me to any resources you've found to support this, I'd be happy to read them and revise my view. Besides the power/construction overhead, the infrastructure costs, and the lack of political will, many large coastal cities will likely see partial flooding and increasingly frequent weather events this century, while some are at risk of complete loss. The meat issue is complex. Lab-grown meat is subject to many of the same power and infrastructure constraints as vertical farming; I don't see it scaling to sustainably meet (meat? ;) current demand. We need a massive reduction in meat consumption in the developed world, but we also need to be conscious of the fact that ruminants remain critical to many agricultural ecosystems. We should certainly stop razing the Amazon for cattle pasture, although that will require a dramatic shift in economic incentives.

shmageggy 6y ago

There was a big thread on this yesterday https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25554941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25554941