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This comment seems to have no connection whatsoever with MMT. Saying that "this is a possible thing that can happen if you model a system this way" is hardly th

This comment seems to have no connection whatsoever with MMT. Saying that "this is a possible thing that can happen if you model a system this way" is hardly the same as "this is an inevitable conclusion and the moral imperative of this model."

jariel 6y ago
From Wikipedia: "MMT argues that governments create new money by using fiscal policy." [1] i.e. "government prints money to do stuff". So it's not a 'conclusion' or 'moral imperative' though, it's a simple fact of the matter: the socialization of the economy through the control of the monetary system. As a secondary point, we can argue about possible ideological implications, in which case, I would say 'this is just Socialism', and we can debate that, but it's besides the point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory Another telling quote from the same article: "In this theory, sovereign government is not financially constrained in its ability to spend; the government can afford to buy anything that is for sale in currency that it issues; there may, however, be political constraints, like a debt ceiling law). The only constraint is that excessive spending by any sector of the economy, whether households, firms, or public, could cause inflationary pressures. " Again: the government is completely free to control any assets it wants to control (as long as they are denominated in local currency). The constraints would be 'politics and inflation'.
- madhadron 6y ago
  > Again: the government is completely free to control any assets it wants to control (as long as they are denominated in local currency). The constraints would be 'politics and inflation'. Yes. This is what a financialized economy does, and is why the British were so focused on creating a financialized economy in their colonies. > I would say 'this is just Socialism' I think where you're confused is that you're thinking of MMT as a policy prescription for how the economy should be managed (socialism!). It's not. It's a description of how fiat currency works in practice without the fig-leaf of gold reserves or the like. Trying to look at it as some kind of socialist propaganda is particularly weird because this theory is much more relevant to describing capitalism than to communism.
  - jariel 6y ago
    "fiat currency works in practice without the fig-leaf of gold reserves or the like" The practices employed by Central Banks are not fig leaves - those rules are how we define money and are maybe the most important rules in any country. Those rules give credibility to the system, without which, it would collapse very quickly. When we move remove the central bank and politicize money, then, the economy is socialized by definition. That's not 'propaganda', that's just 'what it is'. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
    - EricE 6y ago
      "The practices employed by Central Banks are not fig leaves - those rules are how we define money and are maybe the most important rules in any country." heh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo

jariel 6y ago

From Wikipedia: "MMT argues that governments create new money by using fiscal policy." [1] i.e. "government prints money to do stuff". So it's not a 'conclusion' or 'moral imperative' though, it's a simple fact of the matter: the socialization of the economy through the control of the monetary system. As a secondary point, we can argue about possible ideological implications, in which case, I would say 'this is just Socialism', and we can debate that, but it's besides the point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory Another telling quote from the same article: "In this theory, sovereign government is not financially constrained in its ability to spend; the government can afford to buy anything that is for sale in currency that it issues; there may, however, be political constraints, like a debt ceiling law). The only constraint is that excessive spending by any sector of the economy, whether households, firms, or public, could cause inflationary pressures. " Again: the government is completely free to control any assets it wants to control (as long as they are denominated in local currency). The constraints would be 'politics and inflation'.

madhadron 6y ago
> Again: the government is completely free to control any assets it wants to control (as long as they are denominated in local currency). The constraints would be 'politics and inflation'. Yes. This is what a financialized economy does, and is why the British were so focused on creating a financialized economy in their colonies. > I would say 'this is just Socialism' I think where you're confused is that you're thinking of MMT as a policy prescription for how the economy should be managed (socialism!). It's not. It's a description of how fiat currency works in practice without the fig-leaf of gold reserves or the like. Trying to look at it as some kind of socialist propaganda is particularly weird because this theory is much more relevant to describing capitalism than to communism.
- jariel 6y ago
  "fiat currency works in practice without the fig-leaf of gold reserves or the like" The practices employed by Central Banks are not fig leaves - those rules are how we define money and are maybe the most important rules in any country. Those rules give credibility to the system, without which, it would collapse very quickly. When we move remove the central bank and politicize money, then, the economy is socialized by definition. That's not 'propaganda', that's just 'what it is'. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
  - EricE 6y ago
    "The practices employed by Central Banks are not fig leaves - those rules are how we define money and are maybe the most important rules in any country." heh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo