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I believe the article rightly addresses that there are multiple causes for sleep issues and that many are likely the result of stress from the pandemic. But the

by Exmoor 6y ago

I believe the article rightly addresses that there are multiple causes for sleep issues and that many are likely the result of stress from the pandemic. But they've noticed accute issues specifically in patients known to have tested positive fir COVID. From TFA: > In recent months, however, Salas has watched a more curious pattern emerge. Many people’s sleep continues to be disrupted by predictable pandemic anxieties. But more perplexing symptoms have been arising specifically among people who have recovered from COVID-19. “We’re seeing referrals from doctors because the disease itself affects the nervous system,” she says. After recovering, people report changes in attention, debilitating headaches, brain fog, muscular weakness, and, perhaps most commonly, insomnia. There is a contingent of HN posters who are primed to blame a lot of bad effects on "the lockdown." Frankly, I was one of them 8 months ago when there was actually a lockdown, but at least in most places in the USA there really hasn't been anything I could reasonably describe as a "lockdown" since early Summer. Mask mandates, and limits on how specific businesses can operate, sure, but nothing like the draconian shelter-in-place orders we saw in the spring. I can say from firsthand experience that my families mental health is severely compromised at this point, but unfortunately none of it could be solved by less restrictive laws. It's all related to the pandemic and the choices we've had to make to reduce our chances of getting infected and passing that virus on to other people who have higher risks of dying.

deleted 6y ago
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logifail 6y ago
> I can say from firsthand experience that my families mental health is severely compromised at this point, but unfortunately none of it could be solved by less restrictive laws. It's all related to the pandemic and the choices we've had to make to reduce our chances of getting infected and passing that virus on to other people who have higher risks of dying [..] My daughter (5) talks almost daily about the stuff she wants to do "when C19 is over". I'm not worried about getting infected, I'm not worried about her or her elder siblings getting infected (they're at higher risk of getting hit by lightning). I'm not even worried about us infecting older relatives. I am worried about elder relatives not seeing their grandchildren for over a year (and so are the elder relatives, just for that extra data point) She's talking about the stuff she's not allowed to do "because" of C19.
- tptacek 6y ago
  This would be a more persuasive comment if you could be specific about what "she's not allowed to do", rather than just sort of implying that all the stuff your daughter wants to do is un-doable. I don't really understand the logic behind not being worried about your daughter being infected, because the odds of that are not in fact all that low. Do you mean the odds of her ending up with serious symptoms? Part of the point of articles like this is that we don't really yet know the prevalence of serious symptoms that don't involve acute respiratory failure.\ In a similar vein: I sort of understand the logic behind letting grandparents see their grandkids, because time is limited for them either way. But it's probably not a win if your kid visits your mom and she dies as a result, even if it was the last opportunity your mom would ever have to see your kid; it would be a scarring, debilitating thing to live with for your kid.
  - logifail 6y ago
    > if you could be specific about what "she's not allowed to do", rather than just sort of implying that all the stuff your daughter wants to do is un-doable Do I really need to itemize all the things that kindergarten kids could do a year ago and can't do now? (Anyone with a 5 year-old, or indeed any child, can no doubt rattle off a list of this stuff pretty effortlessly...) > it's probably not a win Sorry, but who are you to judge that? I offered to take my daughter to see one set of grandparents a few weeks ago, involving international travel and - how can I put this? - a somewhat liberal interpretation of the rules. The grandparents bit my arm off. Their choice. Yes, they had a fantastic time with their granddaughter for about 24h. People die all the time, for all kinds of awful reasons. Looking at the raw stats, this year just isn't that outstanding. Sorry.
    - tptacek 6y ago
      I used the word "probably" to capture the fact that you might find the psychological cost of having your kid's visit to their grandparents kill that grandparent acceptable. Why don't you go ahead and rattle some of the things you're referring to off for us, so we're all talking about the same things.
lazyjeff 6y ago
I think what you're describing are the behavioral aspects resulting from covid. I've done some analysis on the changes in sleep behaviors on about 100,000 people using a sleep tracking app, if you're interested: https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/ https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/ A visualization showing differences between countries illustrates the median changes in when people wake up is related to the country's response to covid: https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/wakeups-countries-20200829.svg https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/wakeups-countries-20200829... And all in all, about half of people have changed their sleep behavior; about 2/3 of those sleep more hours, and 1/3 of them sleep fewer hours. The usual caveat of a self-selecting population sample applies here.

by Exmoor 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

logifail 6y ago

> I can say from firsthand experience that my families mental health is severely compromised at this point, but unfortunately none of it could be solved by less restrictive laws. It's all related to the pandemic and the choices we've had to make to reduce our chances of getting infected and passing that virus on to other people who have higher risks of dying [..] My daughter (5) talks almost daily about the stuff she wants to do "when C19 is over". I'm not worried about getting infected, I'm not worried about her or her elder siblings getting infected (they're at higher risk of getting hit by lightning). I'm not even worried about us infecting older relatives. I am worried about elder relatives not seeing their grandchildren for over a year (and so are the elder relatives, just for that extra data point) She's talking about the stuff she's not allowed to do "because" of C19.

tptacek 6y ago
This would be a more persuasive comment if you could be specific about what "she's not allowed to do", rather than just sort of implying that all the stuff your daughter wants to do is un-doable. I don't really understand the logic behind not being worried about your daughter being infected, because the odds of that are not in fact all that low. Do you mean the odds of her ending up with serious symptoms? Part of the point of articles like this is that we don't really yet know the prevalence of serious symptoms that don't involve acute respiratory failure.\ In a similar vein: I sort of understand the logic behind letting grandparents see their grandkids, because time is limited for them either way. But it's probably not a win if your kid visits your mom and she dies as a result, even if it was the last opportunity your mom would ever have to see your kid; it would be a scarring, debilitating thing to live with for your kid.
- logifail 6y ago
  > if you could be specific about what "she's not allowed to do", rather than just sort of implying that all the stuff your daughter wants to do is un-doable Do I really need to itemize all the things that kindergarten kids could do a year ago and can't do now? (Anyone with a 5 year-old, or indeed any child, can no doubt rattle off a list of this stuff pretty effortlessly...) > it's probably not a win Sorry, but who are you to judge that? I offered to take my daughter to see one set of grandparents a few weeks ago, involving international travel and - how can I put this? - a somewhat liberal interpretation of the rules. The grandparents bit my arm off. Their choice. Yes, they had a fantastic time with their granddaughter for about 24h. People die all the time, for all kinds of awful reasons. Looking at the raw stats, this year just isn't that outstanding. Sorry.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    I used the word "probably" to capture the fact that you might find the psychological cost of having your kid's visit to their grandparents kill that grandparent acceptable. Why don't you go ahead and rattle some of the things you're referring to off for us, so we're all talking about the same things.

lazyjeff 6y ago

I think what you're describing are the behavioral aspects resulting from covid. I've done some analysis on the changes in sleep behaviors on about 100,000 people using a sleep tracking app, if you're interested: https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/ https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/ A visualization showing differences between countries illustrates the median changes in when people wake up is related to the country's response to covid: https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/wakeups-countries-20200829.svg https://jeffhuang.com/covid_sleep/wakeups-countries-20200829... And all in all, about half of people have changed their sleep behavior; about 2/3 of those sleep more hours, and 1/3 of them sleep fewer hours. The usual caveat of a self-selecting population sample applies here.