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You might want to read up on 'Fallacy of Relative Privation' to see why this point of view is likely to not be helpful. A good starting point is this[0]. [0]

You might want to read up on 'Fallacy of Relative Privation' to see why this point of view is likely to not be helpful. A good starting point is this[0]. [0] https://academy4sc.org/topic/fallacy-of-relative-privation-all-problems-are-relative/ https://academy4sc.org/topic/fallacy-of-relative-privation-a...

caeril 6y ago
Thanks for the rare thoughtful reply, but the fallacy is, itself, a fallacy. IQ/g-factor/ability to reason about systems is unevenly distributed - and, critically, a zero-sum game. For every +2 SD IQ engineer devoted to making humans orgasm, there is one fewer +2 SD IQ engineer devoted to other pursuits, N% of which would have been positive for humanity's progress. Unfortunately, you can't really get around this without heroic efforts to shift the bell curve to the right. edit: Looks like I'm wrong again! Looking forward to HN pointing me to the magic fairy dust that miraculously conjures up raw intellectual talent from the ether.
- aprescott 6y ago
  I have no real opinion on the project in question but devotion is not a fungible, generically applicable resource you decide to apply to one issue or another. Run a test for whatever "IQ/g-factor/ability" handwave you're referencing on someone that loves their work and someone that doesn't.
  - caeril 6y ago
    I think the research is pretty clear on the matter that "passion" is largely derivative of competence and the values of the environment. A society that chooses to elevate meaningful accomplishment and value training people to pursue it is likely to be markedly different than the instant gratification culture we are currently swimming in. edit: Whoops, factually wrong again, apparently! Perhaps this den of rationality that purports to follow the science and research will cite literature contrary to the overwhelming evidence that human interest derives from competence and acquired values. Maybe it's actually from unicorn farts and kitten snuggles?
    - not_knuth 6y ago
      I can not help but detect a condescending tone in your comments (if such is not the case, my apologies – Poe's Law and all) and find it interesting that you have not provided sources to the "research" which your claims are based on. I think it would benefit everybody if you could share a couple of links to some "research".
    - nl 6y ago
      Do you complain this much when a AAA video game is released?
- henearkr 6y ago
  Happy humans are less likely to wage war. So, lowering frustration and helping raising levels of serotonin and endorphins, even by using tech, is intrinsically good for the world. Also, it seems that an active sex life (be it with tech or not) is not dangerous for health. The only reserve could be the tech pollution of badly discarded toys etc, but that has solutions. PS: Also -- bodily happiness can improve creativity, thus actually indirectly helping advances in other scientific domains.
  - morlockabove 6y ago
    Are sex toys alone actually fulfilling to most people? Given the number of people on thw internet complaining about misery from sexual loneliness, it clearly isn't enough. Sex toys, porn, and enculturing cowardice stave off the war, I guess. You just get Elliot Roger instead.
    - henearkr 6y ago
      The connectedness of the new generation of toys, combined with worlds such as VRChat, are contributing to make the loneliness of "not skin-to-skin sex" a thing of the past. Also you start to see (unmanned) virtual characters sophisticated enough to trigger emotions of love, and in some case commitment. It is clearly still extreme and a bit too early, but in the near future I can see people becoming really in fond of their virtual AI character partner. We agree that not only immediate endorphins levels, but also mid and long term serotonin levels, are important for happiness, and I think that this connected tech is helping in the right way.
      - qdot76367 6y ago
        VRChat via a few different plugins (that I should really link from my awesome-buttplug repo) makes up a BIG chunk of my users. Which kinda makes me sad because VRC is an absolute nightmare to work with. Can we please all move to NeosVR? :3
      - morlockabove 6y ago
        Sounds like hell. Nothing personal, but I really hope your enterprise fails miserably.
- asxd 6y ago
  I think the reason you’re getting downvoted is pretty much that you’re trying to impose your ideals on others. Some people likely benefit from this library. Some people benefit from the latest video game. If we were all working on curing cancer, the sad truth is that there wouldn’t be very many fun things in life.
  - dazzawazza 6y ago
    Having a life worth living is something a lot of people forget to do.
  - morlockabove 6y ago
    If we all worked on things as important as curing cancer, we could build god and live happily forever. Whichever generation manages this will 'win'. (Or they build a paperclipper and ruin the lightcone.)
    - t-writescode 6y ago
      I imagine they said the same thing about trying to find something to kill scary things that get into our bodies and kill us from easy-to-die-to diseases. I see the world has not built god and lived happily, forever, after antibiotics were discovered and used. Something else that's horrible will come along and human tendencies will still prevail and exploit others.
      - morlockabove 6y ago
        Modus tollens, modus ponens; my quality of life is vastly improved by not dying of smallpox and equivalent improvements to the world would be very valuable. I think going back to a situation with smallpox would be a big decrease, so that argues against things not really getting better. Building god's just the end-example, even if you never get there you can keep making things better. (I should say that by "build god" I just mean build a friendly AI, i.e. automate science. If that's impossible, just try and do what it would do.) (Hard to enjoy your sex toys when you're coughing your lungs out!)
- michaelt 6y ago
  Aw man, you are going to be so mad when you find out the % of software developer effort that goes into adtech and entertainment. Because I guarantee you, for every developer working on a sex toy there a thousand working on selling lootboxes to 12 year olds, and ten thousand working on showing adverts to people who'd rather not see them.
- scpedicini 6y ago
  No thanks, I'd rather make out with my Monroe bot.
  - qdot76367 6y ago
    We'll hopefully have Monroe bot hardware support in an upcoming version of the library.
davidkuhta 6y ago
You think 'The Fallacy of Relative Privation' is bad? What about the 'tu quoque' fallacy. Wouldn't you consider that a bigger problem?

caeril 6y ago

Thanks for the rare thoughtful reply, but the fallacy is, itself, a fallacy. IQ/g-factor/ability to reason about systems is unevenly distributed - and, critically, a zero-sum game. For every +2 SD IQ engineer devoted to making humans orgasm, there is one fewer +2 SD IQ engineer devoted to other pursuits, N% of which would have been positive for humanity's progress. Unfortunately, you can't really get around this without heroic efforts to shift the bell curve to the right. edit: Looks like I'm wrong again! Looking forward to HN pointing me to the magic fairy dust that miraculously conjures up raw intellectual talent from the ether.

aprescott 6y ago
I have no real opinion on the project in question but devotion is not a fungible, generically applicable resource you decide to apply to one issue or another. Run a test for whatever "IQ/g-factor/ability" handwave you're referencing on someone that loves their work and someone that doesn't.
- caeril 6y ago
  I think the research is pretty clear on the matter that "passion" is largely derivative of competence and the values of the environment. A society that chooses to elevate meaningful accomplishment and value training people to pursue it is likely to be markedly different than the instant gratification culture we are currently swimming in. edit: Whoops, factually wrong again, apparently! Perhaps this den of rationality that purports to follow the science and research will cite literature contrary to the overwhelming evidence that human interest derives from competence and acquired values. Maybe it's actually from unicorn farts and kitten snuggles?
  - not_knuth 6y ago
    I can not help but detect a condescending tone in your comments (if such is not the case, my apologies – Poe's Law and all) and find it interesting that you have not provided sources to the "research" which your claims are based on. I think it would benefit everybody if you could share a couple of links to some "research".
  - nl 6y ago
    Do you complain this much when a AAA video game is released?
henearkr 6y ago
Happy humans are less likely to wage war. So, lowering frustration and helping raising levels of serotonin and endorphins, even by using tech, is intrinsically good for the world. Also, it seems that an active sex life (be it with tech or not) is not dangerous for health. The only reserve could be the tech pollution of badly discarded toys etc, but that has solutions. PS: Also -- bodily happiness can improve creativity, thus actually indirectly helping advances in other scientific domains.
- morlockabove 6y ago
  Are sex toys alone actually fulfilling to most people? Given the number of people on thw internet complaining about misery from sexual loneliness, it clearly isn't enough. Sex toys, porn, and enculturing cowardice stave off the war, I guess. You just get Elliot Roger instead.
  - henearkr 6y ago
    The connectedness of the new generation of toys, combined with worlds such as VRChat, are contributing to make the loneliness of "not skin-to-skin sex" a thing of the past. Also you start to see (unmanned) virtual characters sophisticated enough to trigger emotions of love, and in some case commitment. It is clearly still extreme and a bit too early, but in the near future I can see people becoming really in fond of their virtual AI character partner. We agree that not only immediate endorphins levels, but also mid and long term serotonin levels, are important for happiness, and I think that this connected tech is helping in the right way.
    - qdot76367 6y ago
      VRChat via a few different plugins (that I should really link from my awesome-buttplug repo) makes up a BIG chunk of my users. Which kinda makes me sad because VRC is an absolute nightmare to work with. Can we please all move to NeosVR? :3
    - morlockabove 6y ago
      Sounds like hell. Nothing personal, but I really hope your enterprise fails miserably.
asxd 6y ago
I think the reason you’re getting downvoted is pretty much that you’re trying to impose your ideals on others. Some people likely benefit from this library. Some people benefit from the latest video game. If we were all working on curing cancer, the sad truth is that there wouldn’t be very many fun things in life.
- dazzawazza 6y ago
  Having a life worth living is something a lot of people forget to do.
- morlockabove 6y ago
  If we all worked on things as important as curing cancer, we could build god and live happily forever. Whichever generation manages this will 'win'. (Or they build a paperclipper and ruin the lightcone.)
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    I imagine they said the same thing about trying to find something to kill scary things that get into our bodies and kill us from easy-to-die-to diseases. I see the world has not built god and lived happily, forever, after antibiotics were discovered and used. Something else that's horrible will come along and human tendencies will still prevail and exploit others.
    - morlockabove 6y ago
      Modus tollens, modus ponens; my quality of life is vastly improved by not dying of smallpox and equivalent improvements to the world would be very valuable. I think going back to a situation with smallpox would be a big decrease, so that argues against things not really getting better. Building god's just the end-example, even if you never get there you can keep making things better. (I should say that by "build god" I just mean build a friendly AI, i.e. automate science. If that's impossible, just try and do what it would do.) (Hard to enjoy your sex toys when you're coughing your lungs out!)
michaelt 6y ago
Aw man, you are going to be so mad when you find out the % of software developer effort that goes into adtech and entertainment. Because I guarantee you, for every developer working on a sex toy there a thousand working on selling lootboxes to 12 year olds, and ten thousand working on showing adverts to people who'd rather not see them.
scpedicini 6y ago
No thanks, I'd rather make out with my Monroe bot.
- qdot76367 6y ago
  We'll hopefully have Monroe bot hardware support in an upcoming version of the library.

davidkuhta 6y ago

You think 'The Fallacy of Relative Privation' is bad? What about the 'tu quoque' fallacy. Wouldn't you consider that a bigger problem?