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Apple is adamantly opposed to allowing this use case. It doesn't matter who is asking them.

by bhawks 6y ago

lloeki 6y ago
Ever since Lion(? IIRC when the license terms changed) there was nothing preventing a hypervisor to run on bare Apple metal and host macOS in VMs; in fact a frequently used one is VMware ESXi/Vsphere. It just seems that the market isn't there and people just go for full-machine MacStadium rental or use their own hardware.
- comex 6y ago
  As of Big Sur [1], the license explicitly requires providers to rent out an entire machine at a time. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/11/macos-big-sur-adds-leasing-terms-that-pull-hosting-services-like-macstadium-out-of-a-legal-gray-area/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/11/macos-big-sur-adds-leasing-te...
  - lloeki 6y ago
    Indeed. Also, the "purposes" of Section 3 explicitly lists CI as "(B)", followed (confusingly) by "B.". > For purposes of this Section 3: (A) End User Lessee means a Lessee who is the end user ultimately using the leased Apple Software solely for Permitted Developer Services; and (B) Permitted Developer Services means continuous integration services, including but not limited to software development, building software from source, automated testing during software development, and running necessary developer tools to support such activities. Each Lessor must provide Apple with advance notice prior to leasing or subleasing the Apple Software pursuant to this Section 3 by contacting Apple Developer Relations (https://developer.apple.com/contact/macos-license/ https://developer.apple.com/contact/macos-license/). > B. Subleasing. A Lessee may further sublease the Apple Software pursuant to this Section 3 provided that such Lessee complies with all of the terms of this Section 3. A Lessee subleasing the Apple Software (who shall also be considered a Lessor under this Section 3) must fully relinquish exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware on which it is installed to its Lessee during the lease period. From which I understand that e.g 1. MacStadium is a "Lessor", 2. GitHub is a "Lessee" that does subleasing and has to lease for 24h minimum, and 3. a GitHub Actions user is a "End User Lessee" but could lease for fractions of 24h. Strangely this means that GH cannot provide macOS on its own! Also, this seems to mean that GH has to provide bare metal to its users, not VMs ("must fully relinquish exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware"), which is too bad given what you can do with VMs[0]. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25568613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25568613

Apple is adamantly opposed to allowing this use case. It doesn't matter who is asking them.

by bhawks 6y ago

Apple is adamantly opposed to allowing this use case. It doesn't matter who is asking them.

Ever since Lion(? IIRC when the license terms changed) there was nothing preventing a hypervisor to run on bare Apple metal and host macOS in VMs; in fact a frequently used one is VMware ESXi/Vsphere. It just seems that the market isn't there and people just go for full-machine MacStadium rental or use their own hardware.

comex 6y ago
As of Big Sur [1], the license explicitly requires providers to rent out an entire machine at a time. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/11/macos-big-sur-adds-leasing-terms-that-pull-hosting-services-like-macstadium-out-of-a-legal-gray-area/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/11/macos-big-sur-adds-leasing-te...
- lloeki 6y ago
  Indeed. Also, the "purposes" of Section 3 explicitly lists CI as "(B)", followed (confusingly) by "B.". > For purposes of this Section 3: (A) End User Lessee means a Lessee who is the end user ultimately using the leased Apple Software solely for Permitted Developer Services; and (B) Permitted Developer Services means continuous integration services, including but not limited to software development, building software from source, automated testing during software development, and running necessary developer tools to support such activities. Each Lessor must provide Apple with advance notice prior to leasing or subleasing the Apple Software pursuant to this Section 3 by contacting Apple Developer Relations (https://developer.apple.com/contact/macos-license/ https://developer.apple.com/contact/macos-license/). > B. Subleasing. A Lessee may further sublease the Apple Software pursuant to this Section 3 provided that such Lessee complies with all of the terms of this Section 3. A Lessee subleasing the Apple Software (who shall also be considered a Lessor under this Section 3) must fully relinquish exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware on which it is installed to its Lessee during the lease period. From which I understand that e.g 1. MacStadium is a "Lessor", 2. GitHub is a "Lessee" that does subleasing and has to lease for 24h minimum, and 3. a GitHub Actions user is a "End User Lessee" but could lease for fractions of 24h. Strangely this means that GH cannot provide macOS on its own! Also, this seems to mean that GH has to provide bare metal to its users, not VMs ("must fully relinquish exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware"), which is too bad given what you can do with VMs[0]. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25568613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25568613