4 ms·

Regarding consensus desktop APIs, maybe it's time to re-invent/-introduce Win32s ;) (Although adding that to the library would add considerable bloat, and cros

by mhd 6y ago

Regarding consensus desktop APIs, maybe it's time to re-invent/-introduce Win32s ;) (Although adding that to the library would add considerable bloat, and cross-platform runtime dynamic linking or a "dynamic polyfill" might be a bit beyond the scope of this) Or raw X11 protocol, of course (WSL made X11 servers on Win10 quite common, and . If that wouldn't be so horrible, it would be interesting how small one could get basic widgets starting from scratch.

Asooka 6y ago
It should be possible to compile wxWidgets with Cosmopolitan, one variant per platform (win32, POSIX/X11, MacOS) and initialise the correct one at runtime depending on where you're launched, no?
mwcampbell 6y ago
> it would be interesting how small one could get basic widgets starting from scratch. Please don't do this for any application with a wide audience. Small, simple widgets are missing many important things such as accessibility and internationalization.
- mhd 6y ago
  Sure, as do most TUIs and a lot of web apps. I'm merely suggesting a hack that goes along with this hack, not the foundation technology for a mono-binary Office clone. Re-inventing the UI wheel seems somewhat common within the Go and Rust communities (as is re-inventing everything else), this would just have raw X11 protocol messages via socket as the foundation layer, not Vulkan/GL/SDL. And there just enough to be useful, e.g. text, input, buttons, canvas… For something more serious, I suggest re-inventing PostScript/NeWs as a service, of course.
  - mwcampbell 6y ago
    > I'm merely suggesting a hack that goes along with this hack, not the foundation technology for a mono-binary Office clone. Sure. I just worry that one person's clever hack will then become another person's indispensable tool, which they'll then impose on their colleagues, employees, or contractors, blocking a third person from doing their job. I know a blind person who temporarily lost his job because his employer's largest client required an application that didn't work with screen readers. So I just want to make sure developers are aware of accessibility, and in general, the risks of reinventing things that are necessarily complex.
    - mhd 6y ago
      That's one of the biggest issues some developers have: We pride ourselves in the wisdom to see "bloat", but as you say, a lot of complexity arose out of necessity, even if the developer themselves doesn't need it. Privileged minimalism.
pjmlp 6y ago
I have used XWin32 and Hummingbird since 2000.

by mhd 6y ago

Asooka 6y ago

It should be possible to compile wxWidgets with Cosmopolitan, one variant per platform (win32, POSIX/X11, MacOS) and initialise the correct one at runtime depending on where you're launched, no?

mwcampbell 6y ago

> it would be interesting how small one could get basic widgets starting from scratch. Please don't do this for any application with a wide audience. Small, simple widgets are missing many important things such as accessibility and internationalization.

mhd 6y ago
Sure, as do most TUIs and a lot of web apps. I'm merely suggesting a hack that goes along with this hack, not the foundation technology for a mono-binary Office clone. Re-inventing the UI wheel seems somewhat common within the Go and Rust communities (as is re-inventing everything else), this would just have raw X11 protocol messages via socket as the foundation layer, not Vulkan/GL/SDL. And there just enough to be useful, e.g. text, input, buttons, canvas… For something more serious, I suggest re-inventing PostScript/NeWs as a service, of course.
- mwcampbell 6y ago
  > I'm merely suggesting a hack that goes along with this hack, not the foundation technology for a mono-binary Office clone. Sure. I just worry that one person's clever hack will then become another person's indispensable tool, which they'll then impose on their colleagues, employees, or contractors, blocking a third person from doing their job. I know a blind person who temporarily lost his job because his employer's largest client required an application that didn't work with screen readers. So I just want to make sure developers are aware of accessibility, and in general, the risks of reinventing things that are necessarily complex.
  - mhd 6y ago
    That's one of the biggest issues some developers have: We pride ourselves in the wisdom to see "bloat", but as you say, a lot of complexity arose out of necessity, even if the developer themselves doesn't need it. Privileged minimalism.

pjmlp 6y ago

I have used XWin32 and Hummingbird since 2000.