3 ms·

10240 bytes makes it 10 KiB club, not kB.

by knorker 6y ago

systemvoltage 6y ago
Peak HN pedantry. Doesn’t roll off the tongue as easy as Kb. :-)
- knorker 6y ago
  "Shilling" rolls off the tongue better than "12 pence", but England still switched to decimal currency. So make it 10000 bytes, then. That way it's easier to calculate how long it takes to transmit on the wire, since network speeds have always been 1000-based. Edit: yes, I'm probably getting the pre-decimalization math wrong above, since I'm likely confusing pre-decimalization pence with post.
  - KineticLensman 6y ago
    IIRC in pre-decimal Britain we used 'pence' a lot in a spoken names for the discrete sub-shilling coins but the names of the coins themselves all had distinct colloquial abbreviations for the amount, notably 'tuppence', 'thruppence' and 'ha'penny' for 2, 3 and half a penny respectively. 'Sixpence' - the half shilling - was pronounced as you might expect. The 3 penny coin (yes!) was colloquially called a 'thruppeny bit'. The pre-decimal abbreviation for a penny was 'd' (denari) rather than 'p' (pence) so you would never say '2p' or '5p' as we would today. Decimal quantities such as 5 or 10 pennies didn't have dedicated coins and there was no special name for these amounts. In 1971, a cheap paperback book was sold for two shillings and sixpence, which was said as 'two-and-six'. Decimalisation [0] was my first experience of price gouging, when the same paperbacks were suddenly repriced at 15p (~three shillings) instead of the 12.5p which was the decimal equivalent of their old price. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_Day
RMPR 6y ago
You're right this[0] is kb 0: wikipedia.org/wiki/KB_(rapper)
susam 6y ago
I appreciate the attention to detail. This is something I wondered about too while deciding the transfer size limit. Finally, I decided that this website is neither 10 KiB Club nor 10 kB club but instead 10 KB Club where "KB" colloquially means 1024 bytes. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte, --------------------------------------------------------- Decimal || Binary --------------------------------------------------------- Value | Metric || Value | IEC | JEDEC --------------------------------------------------------- 1000 | kB kilobyte || 1024 | KiB kibibyte | KB kilobyte Also, "In the International System of Units (SI) the prefix kilo means 1000; therefore, one kilobyte is 1000 bytes. The unit symbol is kB." "The binary meaning of the kilobyte for 1024 bytes typically uses the symbol KB, with an uppercase letter K." "In December 1998, the IEC addressed such multiple usages and definitions by creating prefixes such as kibi, mebi, gibi, etc., to unambiguously denote powers of 1024. Thus the kibibyte, symbol KiB, represents 210 bytes = 1024 bytes."
- knorker 6y ago
  In my opinion you're hurting clarity. Continuing to use 1024 is to me clearly being on the wrong side of history.
  - susam 6y ago
    Point taken and I will reconsider the choice of the unit. By the way, I got curious about how various tools deal with the KiB vs. kB vs. KB situation. On macOS Catalina 10.15.7: $ head -c 92160 /dev/urandom > foo $ ls -l foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam staff 92160 Dec 29 15:04 foo $ ls -lh foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam staff 90K Dec 29 15:04 foo On Debian GNU/Linux 10.6 (buster): $ head -c 92160 /dev/urandom > foo $ ls -l foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 92160 Dec 29 09:35 foo $ ls -lh foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 90K Dec 29 09:35 foo $ ls -lh --si foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 93k Dec 29 09:35 foo $ sudo cp foo /var/www/html/foo $ wget http://127.0.0.1/foo -O /dev/null --2020-12-29 09:41:05-- http://127.0.0.1/foo Connecting to 127.0.0.1:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 92160 (90K) [application/octet-stream] Saving to: '/dev/null' /dev/null 100%[===================>] 90.00K --.-KB/s in 0s 2020-12-29 09:41:05 (845 MB/s) - '/dev/null' saved [92160/92160] This 90 kB (92 KiB) is also hosted temporarily at http://172.105.48.21/foo http://172.105.48.21/foo . When Firefox downloads it shows 90 KB in the Developer Tools > Network tab as well as in the download box [1]. However, after the file is downloaded, macOS Finder shows the file to be of 92 KB [2]. [1] https://i.imgur.com/Y0q5anu.png https://i.imgur.com/Y0q5anu.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/muZKcZa.png https://i.imgur.com/muZKcZa.png

10240 bytes makes it 10 KiB club, not kB.

systemvoltage 6y ago

Peak HN pedantry. Doesn’t roll off the tongue as easy as Kb. :-)

knorker 6y ago
"Shilling" rolls off the tongue better than "12 pence", but England still switched to decimal currency. So make it 10000 bytes, then. That way it's easier to calculate how long it takes to transmit on the wire, since network speeds have always been 1000-based. Edit: yes, I'm probably getting the pre-decimalization math wrong above, since I'm likely confusing pre-decimalization pence with post.
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  IIRC in pre-decimal Britain we used 'pence' a lot in a spoken names for the discrete sub-shilling coins but the names of the coins themselves all had distinct colloquial abbreviations for the amount, notably 'tuppence', 'thruppence' and 'ha'penny' for 2, 3 and half a penny respectively. 'Sixpence' - the half shilling - was pronounced as you might expect. The 3 penny coin (yes!) was colloquially called a 'thruppeny bit'. The pre-decimal abbreviation for a penny was 'd' (denari) rather than 'p' (pence) so you would never say '2p' or '5p' as we would today. Decimal quantities such as 5 or 10 pennies didn't have dedicated coins and there was no special name for these amounts. In 1971, a cheap paperback book was sold for two shillings and sixpence, which was said as 'two-and-six'. Decimalisation [0] was my first experience of price gouging, when the same paperbacks were suddenly repriced at 15p (~three shillings) instead of the 12.5p which was the decimal equivalent of their old price. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_Day

RMPR 6y ago

You're right this[0] is kb 0: wikipedia.org/wiki/KB_(rapper)

susam 6y ago

I appreciate the attention to detail. This is something I wondered about too while deciding the transfer size limit. Finally, I decided that this website is neither 10 KiB Club nor 10 kB club but instead 10 KB Club where "KB" colloquially means 1024 bytes. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobyte, --------------------------------------------------------- Decimal || Binary --------------------------------------------------------- Value | Metric || Value | IEC | JEDEC --------------------------------------------------------- 1000 | kB kilobyte || 1024 | KiB kibibyte | KB kilobyte Also, "In the International System of Units (SI) the prefix kilo means 1000; therefore, one kilobyte is 1000 bytes. The unit symbol is kB." "The binary meaning of the kilobyte for 1024 bytes typically uses the symbol KB, with an uppercase letter K." "In December 1998, the IEC addressed such multiple usages and definitions by creating prefixes such as kibi, mebi, gibi, etc., to unambiguously denote powers of 1024. Thus the kibibyte, symbol KiB, represents 210 bytes = 1024 bytes."

knorker 6y ago
In my opinion you're hurting clarity. Continuing to use 1024 is to me clearly being on the wrong side of history.
- susam 6y ago
  Point taken and I will reconsider the choice of the unit. By the way, I got curious about how various tools deal with the KiB vs. kB vs. KB situation. On macOS Catalina 10.15.7: $ head -c 92160 /dev/urandom > foo $ ls -l foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam staff 92160 Dec 29 15:04 foo $ ls -lh foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam staff 90K Dec 29 15:04 foo On Debian GNU/Linux 10.6 (buster): $ head -c 92160 /dev/urandom > foo $ ls -l foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 92160 Dec 29 09:35 foo $ ls -lh foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 90K Dec 29 09:35 foo $ ls -lh --si foo -rw-r--r-- 1 susam susam 93k Dec 29 09:35 foo $ sudo cp foo /var/www/html/foo $ wget http://127.0.0.1/foo -O /dev/null --2020-12-29 09:41:05-- http://127.0.0.1/foo Connecting to 127.0.0.1:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 92160 (90K) [application/octet-stream] Saving to: '/dev/null' /dev/null 100%[===================>] 90.00K --.-KB/s in 0s 2020-12-29 09:41:05 (845 MB/s) - '/dev/null' saved [92160/92160] This 90 kB (92 KiB) is also hosted temporarily at http://172.105.48.21/foo http://172.105.48.21/foo . When Firefox downloads it shows 90 KB in the Developer Tools > Network tab as well as in the download box [1]. However, after the file is downloaded, macOS Finder shows the file to be of 92 KB [2]. [1] https://i.imgur.com/Y0q5anu.png https://i.imgur.com/Y0q5anu.png [2] https://i.imgur.com/muZKcZa.png https://i.imgur.com/muZKcZa.png