4 ms·

My (now defunct) family's software company had a backgammon game with fairly good AI. We frequently got complaints from customers accusing the AI of cheating by

My (now defunct) family's software company had a backgammon game with fairly good AI. We frequently got complaints from customers accusing the AI of cheating by getting favorable dice rolls. This wasn't possible, as the dice roll algorithm literally didn't know which player it was rolling for (let alone the context of the overall game). Instead, the complainers didn't understand that a chief strategy of backgammon is to set yourself up to be able to take advantage of as many different dice rolls as possible.

markbnj 6y ago
Got a kick out of seeing this post. If I am not leaping to the wrong conclusions from your user name, then I know who you are and I'm the original author of that backgammon game :). I worked with your Dad to publish it back in 1990 or 1991. And yes, we got complaints all the time about die rolls favoring the computer player. At least as of a few years ago you could still find some archived usenet threads where we tried to put those to rest by discussing the architectural features you alluded to, as well as publishing some multi-million roll statistical distributions. I recall that Joe Celko brought up the situation in one of his digressions on pseudo-randomness. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  To save anybody else from having to do the research on this rabbit hole I believe the game in question is: https://www.mobygames.com/game/mvp-backgammon https://www.mobygames.com/game/mvp-backgammon Some fun background from 1996: https://bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+59 https://bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+59
  - markbnj 6y ago
    Yes, that's the game, and I am the author of the usenet post you linked. Thanks for digging it up! I haven't seen that in years.
- organsnyder 6y ago
  Hey Mark! Just saw this. You indeed have the right person. Here's an archived version of the MVP site (ugh that design was terrible, even for the early 2000s) that tried to deflect some of the angry phone calls: https://web.archive.org/web/20060325184439/http://www.mvpsoft.com/backgammon-cheat.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060325184439/http://www.mvpsof...
  - markbnj 6y ago
    That's awesome :). I remember writing that defense. I was very young and certain of myself, apparently. Well the die rolls may not have been "as close to absolute randomness as is possible with a PC" but I still think they were pretty good. Thanks for digging that up. It was really an unexpected pleasure to run into you here and see your post on this.
EricE 6y ago
"a chief strategy of backgammon is to set yourself up to be able to take advantage of as many different dice rolls as possible" Exactly. I have many friends who refuse to play with me because I blundered into that when I was in high school and continued to refine it. I guess it just clicked for me but seems to be hard for many people to really understand. That and managing risks too, as others point out.
organsnyder 6y ago
And I just realized the misplaced modifier. My family is intact (though my father has passed away), but the company is defunct...

markbnj 6y ago

Got a kick out of seeing this post. If I am not leaping to the wrong conclusions from your user name, then I know who you are and I'm the original author of that backgammon game :). I worked with your Dad to publish it back in 1990 or 1991. And yes, we got complaints all the time about die rolls favoring the computer player. At least as of a few years ago you could still find some archived usenet threads where we tried to put those to rest by discussing the architectural features you alluded to, as well as publishing some multi-million roll statistical distributions. I recall that Joe Celko brought up the situation in one of his digressions on pseudo-randomness. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.

EvanAnderson 6y ago
To save anybody else from having to do the research on this rabbit hole I believe the game in question is: https://www.mobygames.com/game/mvp-backgammon https://www.mobygames.com/game/mvp-backgammon Some fun background from 1996: https://bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+59 https://bkgm.com/rgb/rgb.cgi?view+59
- markbnj 6y ago
  Yes, that's the game, and I am the author of the usenet post you linked. Thanks for digging it up! I haven't seen that in years.
organsnyder 6y ago
Hey Mark! Just saw this. You indeed have the right person. Here's an archived version of the MVP site (ugh that design was terrible, even for the early 2000s) that tried to deflect some of the angry phone calls: https://web.archive.org/web/20060325184439/http://www.mvpsoft.com/backgammon-cheat.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060325184439/http://www.mvpsof...
- markbnj 6y ago
  That's awesome :). I remember writing that defense. I was very young and certain of myself, apparently. Well the die rolls may not have been "as close to absolute randomness as is possible with a PC" but I still think they were pretty good. Thanks for digging that up. It was really an unexpected pleasure to run into you here and see your post on this.

EricE 6y ago

"a chief strategy of backgammon is to set yourself up to be able to take advantage of as many different dice rolls as possible" Exactly. I have many friends who refuse to play with me because I blundered into that when I was in high school and continued to refine it. I guess it just clicked for me but seems to be hard for many people to really understand. That and managing risks too, as others point out.

organsnyder 6y ago

And I just realized the misplaced modifier. My family is intact (though my father has passed away), but the company is defunct...