3 ms·

Don't you think vertical could have an impact in rain/fertile land starved areas like the israeli desert?

hedora 6y ago
With infinite energy, Israel could have infinite water. They already have unlimited light and land. This is an energy intensive technology. So, the question is whether it uses less electricity to desalinate and flood irrigate, or pay for the electricity to allow ultra high density, water efficient farms, and then desalinate less. (I’d be shocked if either of these approaches is pareto-optimal.)
- Ekaros 6y ago
  Or maybe more traditional approach of greenhouses? Which should have relatively similar case of handling evaporative losses... And if conversion losses of Sun->EV->lights aren't too horrible, you could even cover these with solar panels... What is even the efficiency of electricity used by vertical farms?
  - NickNameNick 6y ago
    I'd expect a greenhouse in the desert to need an enormous amount of ventilation to prevent overheating. You could probably recover some of the water from the exhaust air with a dehumidifier. I'm not sure if that would use less power than air-conditioning the whole structure, but at that point you're pretty much back to indoors farming anyway.
    - kortex 6y ago
      Bubble foam insulation is the way to go in deserts. This is where you pump a soap water foam in between gaps of greenhouse plastic. When you want to block light/heat, fill that wall with foam. Drain to allow radiation. Water can be recuperated with an enthalpy wheel.
- iguy 6y ago
  > question is whether it uses less electricity to desalinate and flood irrigate, or pay for the electricity to allow ultra high density, water efficient farms Nobody desalinates & floods fields, surely. (That's what you do if you live before the invention of water-pipe, or have a use-it-or-lose-it quota.) The Israelis are I think world leaders in growing stuff outdoors with minimal water, delivered directly to the roots. And indoors, they have greenhouses, just not the same design as in cold climates obviously.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    If you deliver just the water the plants need you'll run into soil salinity problems eventually.
    - iguy 6y ago
      I'm no farmer, but both surface and buried drip irrigation are widely done. So I guess they solved that?

With infinite energy, Israel could have infinite water. They already have unlimited light and land. This is an energy intensive technology. So, the question is whether it uses less electricity to desalinate and flood irrigate, or pay for the electricity to allow ultra high density, water efficient farms, and then desalinate less. (I’d be shocked if either of these approaches is pareto-optimal.)

Ekaros 6y ago
Or maybe more traditional approach of greenhouses? Which should have relatively similar case of handling evaporative losses... And if conversion losses of Sun->EV->lights aren't too horrible, you could even cover these with solar panels... What is even the efficiency of electricity used by vertical farms?
- NickNameNick 6y ago
  I'd expect a greenhouse in the desert to need an enormous amount of ventilation to prevent overheating. You could probably recover some of the water from the exhaust air with a dehumidifier. I'm not sure if that would use less power than air-conditioning the whole structure, but at that point you're pretty much back to indoors farming anyway.
  - kortex 6y ago
    Bubble foam insulation is the way to go in deserts. This is where you pump a soap water foam in between gaps of greenhouse plastic. When you want to block light/heat, fill that wall with foam. Drain to allow radiation. Water can be recuperated with an enthalpy wheel.
iguy 6y ago
> question is whether it uses less electricity to desalinate and flood irrigate, or pay for the electricity to allow ultra high density, water efficient farms Nobody desalinates & floods fields, surely. (That's what you do if you live before the invention of water-pipe, or have a use-it-or-lose-it quota.) The Israelis are I think world leaders in growing stuff outdoors with minimal water, delivered directly to the roots. And indoors, they have greenhouses, just not the same design as in cold climates obviously.
- adrianN 6y ago
  If you deliver just the water the plants need you'll run into soil salinity problems eventually.
  - iguy 6y ago
    I'm no farmer, but both surface and buried drip irrigation are widely done. So I guess they solved that?