4 ms·

Saying classicism culminated in fascism is like saying medicine culminated in Dr. Mengele and since then getting fillings is unfashionable. If you showed that

by konjin 6y ago

Saying classicism culminated in fascism is like saying medicine culminated in Dr. Mengele and since then getting fillings is unfashionable. If you showed that fast food place to an Italian fascist they would probably blow it up because it was low culture and glorifying consumerism.

frostburg 6y ago
No, they would have loved it because at the time people in England were hunting in forests. Working class food vendors aren't problematic in the context of the fascist worldview. That having been said, the study of classics being unfashionable due to fascism isn't at all true.
- konjin 6y ago
  In the fascist world view a womans place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. A fast food vendor 2000 years ago means that the supposed golden age of the volk never was. The rootless proletariat of Rome is oddly enough something that communists latch on to: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37811.The_Assassination_of_Julius_Caesar https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37811.The_Assassination_... You should probably read what an ideology actually believes before making sweeping pronouncements for them. This is how we end up with American rednecks being called nazis and american college students communists when the first are slightly right of center market liberals and the second are slightly left of center market liberals.
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    So, what, the swastika iconography and neo-Nazi decor/flags not enough for you? There are plenty rednecks out here in the US that earn the title of nazi, it is not so carelessly given. And there are plenty of college students who genuinely believe in communism.
    - konjin 6y ago
      >So, what, the swastika iconography and neo-Nazi decor/flags not enough for you? No. Behold a Nazi: https://old.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/ire2cs/what_is_up_with_this_pic_of_siouxsie_wearing_a/ https://old.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/ire2cs/what_is_up_wit... The sinequanon of American consumer culture is style over substance. Want to be a Nazi? Buy this flag. Want to be a Communist? Buy this beret. Never mind seeing what the ideology actually stood for. That would require an uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous, amount of thinking. >And there are plenty of college students who genuinely believe in communism. No there aren't. There are plenty of college students who like social democracy, there are very few who want to empower the working class American - fat, white and 40.
      - tomc1985 6y ago
        > That would require an uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous, amount of thinking. About, what? Slaughtering everyone not part of the master race? Yeah, tons of thought there, all of it stuck in the stone age. You are viewing "American consumerism" through a very narrow lens, and an incorrect one at that. The people that buy nazi stuff here generally drink the koolaid. I don't know what you're reading but naziism is still taboo here.
        konjin 6y ago
        I find the people who think there is such a thing as an American Nazi movement are the ones whose idea of what a Nazi is comes from Marvel comics' Hydra. A simple question: have you actually read Mein Kampf or the Communist Manifesto?
        cygx 6y ago
        You don't think it's a bit more than bad cosplay when you have people marching to chants of 'Jews will not replace us'?
        konjin 6y ago
  - frostburg 6y ago
    Delusions about the ancient pastoral lifestyle weren't really a major feature of Italian fascism, which was deeply rooted in the Futurist movement. You shouldn't assume that you're talking to Americans.
    - tomcooks 6y ago
      American or not, I suggest you check the bunch of propaganda videos showing Mussolini himself harvesting crops and his calls to the rural, natural lifestyle of the forefathers (his milk only breakfast being a good example accessible to non Italian speakers) Judging from your comment I can assume you're not American, therefore you might be familiar with Coletti's study on the rural roots of fascism. Have an excerpt that you might find interesting: ''' One can not say based on these figures that Fascism has become strictly rural; one can only say that a good half of the Fascist militias come from the rural areas. Not only are we not ashamed of this, but we would like to proclaim — as a badge of honour — that Fascism in the Po Valley is today largely "rural". ''' Lastly, one of the "good things that Mussolini did" (as his supporters love to repeat) is precisely the creation of agricultural land after the 1929 crisis. The n.3134 law on land quenching (legge sulla bonifica integrale) turned ONE THIRD of the land into agricultural soil (more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Land https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Land). You shouldn't assume other people suffer from delusions. Best regards.
      - frostburg 6y ago
        This is true but I'd argue that it was mostly tactical (given the amount of farmers in Italy at the time it would have been unwise to spurn them); I'm Italian and I'm familiar, yes. The publicity images of Mussolini harvesting crops were made in the context of the effort ("battaglia del grano", edit: I see that you mentioned this) to reach autarky of the food supply. Regarding delusions, I was referring to the "volkish" beliefs in German fascism.

by konjin 6y ago

frostburg 6y ago

No, they would have loved it because at the time people in England were hunting in forests. Working class food vendors aren't problematic in the context of the fascist worldview. That having been said, the study of classics being unfashionable due to fascism isn't at all true.

konjin 6y ago
In the fascist world view a womans place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. A fast food vendor 2000 years ago means that the supposed golden age of the volk never was. The rootless proletariat of Rome is oddly enough something that communists latch on to: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37811.The_Assassination_of_Julius_Caesar https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37811.The_Assassination_... You should probably read what an ideology actually believes before making sweeping pronouncements for them. This is how we end up with American rednecks being called nazis and american college students communists when the first are slightly right of center market liberals and the second are slightly left of center market liberals.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  So, what, the swastika iconography and neo-Nazi decor/flags not enough for you? There are plenty rednecks out here in the US that earn the title of nazi, it is not so carelessly given. And there are plenty of college students who genuinely believe in communism.
  - konjin 6y ago
    >So, what, the swastika iconography and neo-Nazi decor/flags not enough for you? No. Behold a Nazi: https://old.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/ire2cs/what_is_up_with_this_pic_of_siouxsie_wearing_a/ https://old.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/ire2cs/what_is_up_wit... The sinequanon of American consumer culture is style over substance. Want to be a Nazi? Buy this flag. Want to be a Communist? Buy this beret. Never mind seeing what the ideology actually stood for. That would require an uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous, amount of thinking. >And there are plenty of college students who genuinely believe in communism. No there aren't. There are plenty of college students who like social democracy, there are very few who want to empower the working class American - fat, white and 40.
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      > That would require an uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous, amount of thinking. About, what? Slaughtering everyone not part of the master race? Yeah, tons of thought there, all of it stuck in the stone age. You are viewing "American consumerism" through a very narrow lens, and an incorrect one at that. The people that buy nazi stuff here generally drink the koolaid. I don't know what you're reading but naziism is still taboo here.
      - konjin 6y ago
        I find the people who think there is such a thing as an American Nazi movement are the ones whose idea of what a Nazi is comes from Marvel comics' Hydra. A simple question: have you actually read Mein Kampf or the Communist Manifesto?
        cygx 6y ago
        You don't think it's a bit more than bad cosplay when you have people marching to chants of 'Jews will not replace us'?
        konjin 6y ago
- frostburg 6y ago
  Delusions about the ancient pastoral lifestyle weren't really a major feature of Italian fascism, which was deeply rooted in the Futurist movement. You shouldn't assume that you're talking to Americans.
  - tomcooks 6y ago
    American or not, I suggest you check the bunch of propaganda videos showing Mussolini himself harvesting crops and his calls to the rural, natural lifestyle of the forefathers (his milk only breakfast being a good example accessible to non Italian speakers) Judging from your comment I can assume you're not American, therefore you might be familiar with Coletti's study on the rural roots of fascism. Have an excerpt that you might find interesting: ''' One can not say based on these figures that Fascism has become strictly rural; one can only say that a good half of the Fascist militias come from the rural areas. Not only are we not ashamed of this, but we would like to proclaim — as a badge of honour — that Fascism in the Po Valley is today largely "rural". ''' Lastly, one of the "good things that Mussolini did" (as his supporters love to repeat) is precisely the creation of agricultural land after the 1929 crisis. The n.3134 law on land quenching (legge sulla bonifica integrale) turned ONE THIRD of the land into agricultural soil (more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Land https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Land). You shouldn't assume other people suffer from delusions. Best regards.
    - frostburg 6y ago
      This is true but I'd argue that it was mostly tactical (given the amount of farmers in Italy at the time it would have been unwise to spurn them); I'm Italian and I'm familiar, yes. The publicity images of Mussolini harvesting crops were made in the context of the effort ("battaglia del grano", edit: I see that you mentioned this) to reach autarky of the food supply. Regarding delusions, I was referring to the "volkish" beliefs in German fascism.