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> Plenty of people will understand the payoff and will be able to push themselves over the hump to reach a more optimized state. But there will probably always

> Plenty of people will understand the payoff and will be able to push themselves over the hump to reach a more optimized state. But there will probably always be lots of people who can't and will buy electricity instead. A consequence of this is that as people with the capital (and accountants advising them) opt out of the grid, the burden of grid maintenance will fall increasingly on people who can't get access to the capital (or are short-term in their housing). So poor people will end up paying far more for their electricity than affluent people.

ew6082 6y ago
Renewables won't buy an industrial power user out of the grid, they need reliability. Also, location is more important than what the power bill is for most industry and commercial. You need a large plot of land for the power to run your average large power user.
- cbmuser 6y ago
  Renewables won’t make house owners independent of the grid either. Have a look at Calfifornia where a lot of gas plants have to provide electricity when the sun is down. It’s sometimes really bizarre how proponents of renewables completely ignore the low capacity factor of their proposed technology or claim that large-capacity storage is a trivial problem to solve. There is a reason why Germany has the second-highest electricity prices worldwide and why California had rolling blackouts not so long ago.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Germany's electricity prices are almost completely irrelevant for the discussion about the cost of newly installed renewables today. In Germany consumer prices are high because the consumer subsidizes twenty year old systems while large scale industrial users get to consume the cheap, subsidized electricity.
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    California had rolling blackouts because of criminal fraud. The governor was recalled to kill prosecution of the fraud, and to get the state to pay the fraudulent billing. Arnold came through with the $80B.

ew6082 6y ago

Renewables won't buy an industrial power user out of the grid, they need reliability. Also, location is more important than what the power bill is for most industry and commercial. You need a large plot of land for the power to run your average large power user.

cbmuser 6y ago
Renewables won’t make house owners independent of the grid either. Have a look at Calfifornia where a lot of gas plants have to provide electricity when the sun is down. It’s sometimes really bizarre how proponents of renewables completely ignore the low capacity factor of their proposed technology or claim that large-capacity storage is a trivial problem to solve. There is a reason why Germany has the second-highest electricity prices worldwide and why California had rolling blackouts not so long ago.
- adrianN 6y ago
  Germany's electricity prices are almost completely irrelevant for the discussion about the cost of newly installed renewables today. In Germany consumer prices are high because the consumer subsidizes twenty year old systems while large scale industrial users get to consume the cheap, subsidized electricity.
- ncmncm 6y ago
  California had rolling blackouts because of criminal fraud. The governor was recalled to kill prosecution of the fraud, and to get the state to pay the fraudulent billing. Arnold came through with the $80B.