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>I wonder whether civilizations with seemingly more continuous histories like China feel more connection to the rest of their history. This is a really good po

>I wonder whether civilizations with seemingly more continuous histories like China feel more connection to the rest of their history. This is a really good point actually. I have talked recently to Persian coworkers about their nation's history. They identify with the full length of recorded Persian history. That is, all ~5000 years of it. I have read elsewhere that this is possibly a modern trend, that is, they didn't teach Persian history as the history of their current country at some points in the past. I suspect their emotional attachment to events 2000 years ago feels a bit different to mine then. They might feel a whole lot closer to the Sassasinds than I do to Boudicca. But maybe that has not always been the case.

KhoomeiK 6y ago
Yeah, it could be a modern phenomenon and even now, a very small percentage of people have an understanding of the grand scheme of history. Even without knowing the dates and exact order of events though, it still seems plausible for Persians to have an emotional connection to historical legends that they pretty much grew up with. That 5000 number is interesting though. Do they feel a connection with the Elamites, Sumerians, and Akkadians? That would be kind of surprising. It would make sense for them to connect with Xerxes and the Achaemenids or Medians though, despite the difference in religion. Sorta related, I've heard that there's a growing Zoroastrian movement among the "rebellious" Persian youth.
- deleted 6y ago
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konjin 6y ago
You can talk to a Greek and an Italian and get the same. It was interesting seeing flowers in the spot where Caesar was killed on the Ides of March some 2000 years later.
Eric_WVGG 6y ago
I did a course on the history of the Christian Crusades back in college, right when Operation Desert Storm was going on. The professor said that due to an essentially oral history tradition, they talked about the Crusades as something that had happened relatively recently, like to their great-grandparents. American parents will warn their children that if they misbehave, "the boogeyman" will come for them at night. I was told that the Middle Eastern analogue was "Richard will come and get you" — as in Richard the Lion-Hearted. (I have no idea if this is true or not… it sounded like a fun anecdote back in college, now it sounds slightly ridiculous to me, but who knows?)
- hcho 6y ago
  That does not ring true. Crusades were mostly forgotten until the rise of Arab and Turkish nationalisms. They were then appropriated into nationhood folklore.
  - al3xandre 6y ago
    Crazy how what we identify with historically depends more on what we decide to teach children in school than actual history, no?
    - oblio 6y ago
      Primary and middle school especially are part of nation building everywhere in the world. History lessons are purposefully a mix of history and propaganda. Every nation has a founding myth. Romania's is the struggle against adversity, foreign empires and our resilience over millennia. The American one is freedom (the struggle against tyranny) and the American dream. The British one is resistance against adversity on their island, vanquishing European autocrats. Russia's is liberation from the steppe nomads and then turning the tides in a rough part of the world. They're half lies, half truth in my experience. You know, myths :-)
- Cyph0n 6y ago
  Firstly, the Middle East is a vast place, so there is really no “Middle Eastern analogue”. A regional version, maybe. Secondly, the Crusades happened a very long time ago. From experience, I have never met or heard of an Arab who thought it was anything but a historical event. So, I highly doubt that anyone in the Middle East thinks of the Crusades as being relatively recent.
  - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
    I said “Middle East” because this class was twenty five years ago and I only have the vague recollection of the particulars. And yes nobody literally thinks it happened yesterday, so you’re missing the point.
- 6y ago

KhoomeiK 6y ago

Yeah, it could be a modern phenomenon and even now, a very small percentage of people have an understanding of the grand scheme of history. Even without knowing the dates and exact order of events though, it still seems plausible for Persians to have an emotional connection to historical legends that they pretty much grew up with. That 5000 number is interesting though. Do they feel a connection with the Elamites, Sumerians, and Akkadians? That would be kind of surprising. It would make sense for them to connect with Xerxes and the Achaemenids or Medians though, despite the difference in religion. Sorta related, I've heard that there's a growing Zoroastrian movement among the "rebellious" Persian youth.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

konjin 6y ago

You can talk to a Greek and an Italian and get the same. It was interesting seeing flowers in the spot where Caesar was killed on the Ides of March some 2000 years later.

Eric_WVGG 6y ago

I did a course on the history of the Christian Crusades back in college, right when Operation Desert Storm was going on. The professor said that due to an essentially oral history tradition, they talked about the Crusades as something that had happened relatively recently, like to their great-grandparents. American parents will warn their children that if they misbehave, "the boogeyman" will come for them at night. I was told that the Middle Eastern analogue was "Richard will come and get you" — as in Richard the Lion-Hearted. (I have no idea if this is true or not… it sounded like a fun anecdote back in college, now it sounds slightly ridiculous to me, but who knows?)

hcho 6y ago
That does not ring true. Crusades were mostly forgotten until the rise of Arab and Turkish nationalisms. They were then appropriated into nationhood folklore.
- al3xandre 6y ago
  Crazy how what we identify with historically depends more on what we decide to teach children in school than actual history, no?
  - oblio 6y ago
    Primary and middle school especially are part of nation building everywhere in the world. History lessons are purposefully a mix of history and propaganda. Every nation has a founding myth. Romania's is the struggle against adversity, foreign empires and our resilience over millennia. The American one is freedom (the struggle against tyranny) and the American dream. The British one is resistance against adversity on their island, vanquishing European autocrats. Russia's is liberation from the steppe nomads and then turning the tides in a rough part of the world. They're half lies, half truth in my experience. You know, myths :-)
Cyph0n 6y ago
Firstly, the Middle East is a vast place, so there is really no “Middle Eastern analogue”. A regional version, maybe. Secondly, the Crusades happened a very long time ago. From experience, I have never met or heard of an Arab who thought it was anything but a historical event. So, I highly doubt that anyone in the Middle East thinks of the Crusades as being relatively recent.
- Eric_WVGG 6y ago
  I said “Middle East” because this class was twenty five years ago and I only have the vague recollection of the particulars. And yes nobody literally thinks it happened yesterday, so you’re missing the point.
6y ago