5 ms·

The weird space that lies outside our Solar System

23 points by adrian_mrd 6y ago

beamatronic 6y ago
I think we need a continuous stream of Voyagers. Each with the latest sensor suite but otherwise using proven designs. What could we learn with, say, a good telescope mounted to one of these. It’s also not out of the range of possibilities to have a high bandwidth telecommunications infrastructure deployed across the entire solar system.
- andrekandre 6y ago
  sounds like a job for the intergalactice computer network
- Someone 6y ago
  You need more broadcast power the further you’re away from earth and there’s less solar energy per m² the further you’re away from the sun (Neptune is 30 AU away, so there, per m² it’s about a thousandth of what we get around earth), and launching nuclear powered space probes (let alone a continuous stream of them) is a bit controversial. Because of that, I think high bandwidth is problematic (Voyager 2 had 115 kbits/second at Jupiter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2#Communications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2#Communications) and currently has 160 bits per second; new Horizons, launched in 2006 has _less_ than that (smaller parabolic dish; less power ; dedicating fewer antennas on earth to receive data (https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/27450/why-is-new-horizons-data-transmission-speed-so-slow-compared-to-voyager https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/27450/why-is-new-h...)) You also would need a lot of large radio antennas on/around earth if you want to receive from these probes 24h/day (and if you don’t, you of course give up effective bandwidth)
- iszomer 6y ago
  Or make satellites with relay capabilities? Why did they have to EOL Cassini when it had an RTG anyway?
  - celias 6y ago
    From https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/cassini/mission/grand-finale/overview/ https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/cassini/mission/grand-... "Having expended almost every bit of the rocket propellant it carried to Saturn, operators deliberately plunged Cassini into the planet to ensure Saturn's moons remain pristine for future exploration"
  - hliyan 6y ago
    A series of relays spread across the Jovian orbit would be an interesting way to mitigate the effects of the inverse square law on transmissions from extra-solar probes.
- hliyan 6y ago
  I wonder what it would cost to build an exact replica of a Voyager and launch it on one of the newer launch vehicles? Obviously, we're not going to get a gravity slingshot off multiple gas giants, but considering that Voyagers were launched using Titan rockets, we should be able to give it a much better push from Earth orbit.
frongpik 6y ago
The article is a pain to read: it's a word salad with just a few bits of information. I can see how such articles will be generated by GPT with a prompt like "voyager crossed the heliosphere boundary and found weirdly turbulent space there". I feel like that most journalists are glorified GPT models: they expand a short prompt into a word salad so the news agency could stuff it with ads. The really interesting question is "what is [solar] magnetism?" Wikipedia gives a thought terminating answer: magnetism is a vector field, as if vector field a real thing that can press back the sea of turbulence like the sun does.
- p1esk 6y ago
  It's a force vector field. What's not real about it?
  - frongpik 6y ago
    What is it made of?
    - p1esk 6y ago
      I have no idea. Doesn’t make it any less real though.
      - frongpik 6y ago
        This is what I meant by a thought-terminating answer. Magnetic field is not a "vector field" because a "vector field" is a math abstraction, while magnetic field is real. Just like water is not a diff equation with boundary conditions, no matter how accurate that diff equation is.
    - m_mueller 6y ago
      I think that is the wrong question to ask. A vector field is just a mathematical model to describe a natural phenomenon, as does curved spacetime for gravity. Those models have limitations under certain Conditions. For magnetism there are afaik quantum mechanical models available for all energy states while for gravity those seem to only work at lower energies. At the end, your question is about the nature of truth - what is behind all this. I don't think anyone can answer that so far in a scientific way, that is, in a falsifiable and not yet disproven manner.

23 points by adrian_mrd 6y ago

I think we need a continuous stream of Voyagers. Each with the latest sensor suite but otherwise using proven designs. What could we learn with, say, a good telescope mounted to one of these. It’s also not out of the range of possibilities to have a high bandwidth telecommunications infrastructure deployed across the entire solar system.

andrekandre 6y ago
sounds like a job for the intergalactice computer network
Someone 6y ago
You need more broadcast power the further you’re away from earth and there’s less solar energy per m² the further you’re away from the sun (Neptune is 30 AU away, so there, per m² it’s about a thousandth of what we get around earth), and launching nuclear powered space probes (let alone a continuous stream of them) is a bit controversial. Because of that, I think high bandwidth is problematic (Voyager 2 had 115 kbits/second at Jupiter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2#Communications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2#Communications) and currently has 160 bits per second; new Horizons, launched in 2006 has _less_ than that (smaller parabolic dish; less power ; dedicating fewer antennas on earth to receive data (https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/27450/why-is-new-horizons-data-transmission-speed-so-slow-compared-to-voyager https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/27450/why-is-new-h...)) You also would need a lot of large radio antennas on/around earth if you want to receive from these probes 24h/day (and if you don’t, you of course give up effective bandwidth)
iszomer 6y ago
Or make satellites with relay capabilities? Why did they have to EOL Cassini when it had an RTG anyway?
- celias 6y ago
  From https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/cassini/mission/grand-finale/overview/ https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/cassini/mission/grand-... "Having expended almost every bit of the rocket propellant it carried to Saturn, operators deliberately plunged Cassini into the planet to ensure Saturn's moons remain pristine for future exploration"
- hliyan 6y ago
  A series of relays spread across the Jovian orbit would be an interesting way to mitigate the effects of the inverse square law on transmissions from extra-solar probes.
hliyan 6y ago
I wonder what it would cost to build an exact replica of a Voyager and launch it on one of the newer launch vehicles? Obviously, we're not going to get a gravity slingshot off multiple gas giants, but considering that Voyagers were launched using Titan rockets, we should be able to give it a much better push from Earth orbit.

frongpik 6y ago

The article is a pain to read: it's a word salad with just a few bits of information. I can see how such articles will be generated by GPT with a prompt like "voyager crossed the heliosphere boundary and found weirdly turbulent space there". I feel like that most journalists are glorified GPT models: they expand a short prompt into a word salad so the news agency could stuff it with ads. The really interesting question is "what is [solar] magnetism?" Wikipedia gives a thought terminating answer: magnetism is a vector field, as if vector field a real thing that can press back the sea of turbulence like the sun does.

p1esk 6y ago
It's a force vector field. What's not real about it?
- frongpik 6y ago
  What is it made of?
  - p1esk 6y ago
    I have no idea. Doesn’t make it any less real though.
    - frongpik 6y ago
      This is what I meant by a thought-terminating answer. Magnetic field is not a "vector field" because a "vector field" is a math abstraction, while magnetic field is real. Just like water is not a diff equation with boundary conditions, no matter how accurate that diff equation is.
  - m_mueller 6y ago
    I think that is the wrong question to ask. A vector field is just a mathematical model to describe a natural phenomenon, as does curved spacetime for gravity. Those models have limitations under certain Conditions. For magnetism there are afaik quantum mechanical models available for all energy states while for gravity those seem to only work at lower energies. At the end, your question is about the nature of truth - what is behind all this. I don't think anyone can answer that so far in a scientific way, that is, in a falsifiable and not yet disproven manner.