3 ms·

I am not sure where in the 47 pages you are reading that, I can find that the report is reccomending a european internet like the chinese to have higher growth

by erk__ 6y ago

I am not sure where in the 47 pages you are reading that, I can find that the report is reccomending a european internet like the chinese to have higher growth in EU, and to foster european values "such as democratic values, data protection, data accessibility, transparency and user friendliness." Which I see rather pependicular to what you are saying it is telling. It should also be said that this report is not made by the european union, but for the european union by a 3rd party that got paid to make research for them. What it says, may or may not be influential to the future decicions of the EU.

emteycz 6y ago
> I am not sure where in the 47 pages you are reading that From the document: "An added benefit of the increase in electronic payments is the reduction of shadow economy. Each year trillions of Euro flow in the shadow market unregulated and untaxed, leading to long term deficits. Traceability of electronic payments is much better than with cash, leading to more information on the flow of money. This information can be used to reduce tax evasion and make regulation easier, in turn reducing the shadow economy" > It should also be said that this report is not made by the european union, but for the european union by a 3rd party that got paid to make research for them. Signature right on the front page: "Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies Directorate-General for Internal Policies." This "third-party document" shit is a really embarrassing excuse. Can't the EU apologists think of something better? Maybe someone external cooperated on that document - but it's still a document by the EU and for the EU just like any other, authored and published by a department of the Directorate-General for Internal Policies of the EU. I am sure they wouldn't have signed and published it if they disagreed with the content (or at least would have said so). You wouldn't try to claim that a law/regulation written by an external lawyer and published by the EU is actually not an EU document, right? Because there is a lot of that, e.g. the GDPR. From the document: "The study lays out predictions for digital services in the next one to ten years and provides recommendations for action for the European Parliament in preparation for the Digital Services Act. This document was provided by the Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies at the request of the committee on the Internal Market and Consumer Protection." Anyways, this document is one of many, it's just the first I had a link to. The same points (and other, even more concerning ones) are made in many more. > "such as democratic values, data protection, data accessibility, transparency and user friendliness." Sure, just like the encryption backdoors are for the children, for the democracy and especially for transparency. Take these democratic values with you, I am not interested. The EU is really efficient in showing us why is democracy wrong.
- erk__ 6y ago
  > From the document: "An added benefit of the increase in electronic payments is the reduction of shadow economy. Each year trillions of Euro flow in the shadow market unregulated and untaxed, leading to long term deficits. Traceability of electronic payments is much better than with cash, leading to more information on the flow of money. This information can be used to reduce tax evasion and make regulation easier, in turn reducing the shadow economy" That is an observation, not a policy thought up by politicians working at the Parliment. >This "third-party document" shit is a really embarrassing excuse. Can't the EU apologists think of something better? It is a study for politicians to take better decicions not policies to be implemented, for that you want to read the things like the meeting minutes not supporting analysis. >Anyways, this document is one of many, it's just the first I had a link to. The same points (and other, even more concerning ones) are made in many more. I would welcome linking to more, as long as they are not just studies, although interesting reading they do not dictate the policy. >Sure, just like the encryption backdoors are for the children, for the democracy and especially for transparency. Take these democratic values with you, I am not interested. The EU is really efficient in showing us why is democracy wrong. Well I am also welcoming more information about this as it sounds like something I want to read up on. The EU may be inefficient, and it could be a lot better, which is why I would welcome a discussion about it instead of making accusations without providing any sources to base your claims on.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    > That is an observation, not a policy thought up by politicians working at the Parliment. Once more, the document says: "The study lays out predictions for digital services in the next one to ten years and provides recommendations for action for the European Parliament in preparation for the Digital Services Act." > It is a study for politicians to take better decicions not policies to be implemented, for that you want to read the things like the meeting minutes not supporting analysis. Exactly! And they really took all of this very concerning advice to their hearts with the Digital Services Act. > I would welcome linking to more, as long as they are not just studies, although interesting reading they do not dictate the policy. Start here: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/digital-services-act-package https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/digital-servic... > Well I am also welcoming more information about this as it sounds like something I want to read up on. The EU may be inefficient, and it could be a lot better, which is why I would welcome a discussion about it instead of making accusations without providing any sources to base your claims on. Are you not watching the news? Even if not you could have easily used Google yourself, the document I linked gives more than enough keywords. We're very lucky the EU is inefficient, otherwise there would be a totalitarian police state way worse than China or Russia sooner than tomorrow. Fortunately we got enough time to leave before the EU makes its latest moves. No discussion is going to save this shit show, we're way past that. The DSA is going to be implemented soon and it's not going to be even a tiny bit better regardless of how much you talk about democratic values. Sadly it can't be better. This union is not striving for freedom but the opposite.

by erk__ 6y ago

emteycz 6y ago

> I am not sure where in the 47 pages you are reading that From the document: "An added benefit of the increase in electronic payments is the reduction of shadow economy. Each year trillions of Euro flow in the shadow market unregulated and untaxed, leading to long term deficits. Traceability of electronic payments is much better than with cash, leading to more information on the flow of money. This information can be used to reduce tax evasion and make regulation easier, in turn reducing the shadow economy" > It should also be said that this report is not made by the european union, but for the european union by a 3rd party that got paid to make research for them. Signature right on the front page: "Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies Directorate-General for Internal Policies." This "third-party document" shit is a really embarrassing excuse. Can't the EU apologists think of something better? Maybe someone external cooperated on that document - but it's still a document by the EU and for the EU just like any other, authored and published by a department of the Directorate-General for Internal Policies of the EU. I am sure they wouldn't have signed and published it if they disagreed with the content (or at least would have said so). You wouldn't try to claim that a law/regulation written by an external lawyer and published by the EU is actually not an EU document, right? Because there is a lot of that, e.g. the GDPR. From the document: "The study lays out predictions for digital services in the next one to ten years and provides recommendations for action for the European Parliament in preparation for the Digital Services Act. This document was provided by the Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies at the request of the committee on the Internal Market and Consumer Protection." Anyways, this document is one of many, it's just the first I had a link to. The same points (and other, even more concerning ones) are made in many more. > "such as democratic values, data protection, data accessibility, transparency and user friendliness." Sure, just like the encryption backdoors are for the children, for the democracy and especially for transparency. Take these democratic values with you, I am not interested. The EU is really efficient in showing us why is democracy wrong.

erk__ 6y ago
> From the document: "An added benefit of the increase in electronic payments is the reduction of shadow economy. Each year trillions of Euro flow in the shadow market unregulated and untaxed, leading to long term deficits. Traceability of electronic payments is much better than with cash, leading to more information on the flow of money. This information can be used to reduce tax evasion and make regulation easier, in turn reducing the shadow economy" That is an observation, not a policy thought up by politicians working at the Parliment. >This "third-party document" shit is a really embarrassing excuse. Can't the EU apologists think of something better? It is a study for politicians to take better decicions not policies to be implemented, for that you want to read the things like the meeting minutes not supporting analysis. >Anyways, this document is one of many, it's just the first I had a link to. The same points (and other, even more concerning ones) are made in many more. I would welcome linking to more, as long as they are not just studies, although interesting reading they do not dictate the policy. >Sure, just like the encryption backdoors are for the children, for the democracy and especially for transparency. Take these democratic values with you, I am not interested. The EU is really efficient in showing us why is democracy wrong. Well I am also welcoming more information about this as it sounds like something I want to read up on. The EU may be inefficient, and it could be a lot better, which is why I would welcome a discussion about it instead of making accusations without providing any sources to base your claims on.
- emteycz 6y ago
  > That is an observation, not a policy thought up by politicians working at the Parliment. Once more, the document says: "The study lays out predictions for digital services in the next one to ten years and provides recommendations for action for the European Parliament in preparation for the Digital Services Act." > It is a study for politicians to take better decicions not policies to be implemented, for that you want to read the things like the meeting minutes not supporting analysis. Exactly! And they really took all of this very concerning advice to their hearts with the Digital Services Act. > I would welcome linking to more, as long as they are not just studies, although interesting reading they do not dictate the policy. Start here: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/digital-services-act-package https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/digital-servic... > Well I am also welcoming more information about this as it sounds like something I want to read up on. The EU may be inefficient, and it could be a lot better, which is why I would welcome a discussion about it instead of making accusations without providing any sources to base your claims on. Are you not watching the news? Even if not you could have easily used Google yourself, the document I linked gives more than enough keywords. We're very lucky the EU is inefficient, otherwise there would be a totalitarian police state way worse than China or Russia sooner than tomorrow. Fortunately we got enough time to leave before the EU makes its latest moves. No discussion is going to save this shit show, we're way past that. The DSA is going to be implemented soon and it's not going to be even a tiny bit better regardless of how much you talk about democratic values. Sadly it can't be better. This union is not striving for freedom but the opposite.