3 ms·

It isn't actually completely mysterious. If you listen to what immunologists/ & virologists they can explain a number of mechanisms which might be responsible.

It isn't actually completely mysterious. If you listen to what immunologists/ & virologists they can explain a number of mechanisms which might be responsible. Obviously I'm not qualified to give a good explanation, but there's plenty of good exposition if you look. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03326-w https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03326-w - Statistical effects, which might decrease the difference as the trial progresses. - A bigger dose causing an over-effective suppression of the carrier adenovirus, suppressing it's ability to make the COVID spike protein, and hence the production of COVID targetting T cells. There is also a huge flaw in the testing of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: they didn't test everyone. Only people with symptoms (whatever that means) were tested (PCR). Whereas with the Oxford AZ vax all participants were tested, so we can actually get an idea of asymptomatic infection.

estaseuropano 6y ago
> There is also a huge flaw in the testing of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: they didn't test everyone. Only people with symptoms (whatever that means) were tested (PCR). Wow, do you have a source for this? That's quite a stunning difference and really should put the ~~Pfizer~~ BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in doubt if the aim is herd immunity.
- blueblisters 6y ago
  Have a look at Table 4 here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/recs/grade/covid-19-moderna-vaccine.html#results https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/recs/grade/covid-19-modern... They seem to have preliminary results for asymptomatic testing: 14/14314 asymptomatic individuals were found in the vaccine group v/s 38/14073 in the control group. At least from the preliminary data, the Moderna vaccine nowhere near as effective in stopping asymptomatic infections.
- angry_octet 6y ago
  A more detailed overview: https://theconversation.com/covid-19-vaccine-faq-6-things-to-look-for-in-clinical-trial-results-150843 https://theconversation.com/covid-19-vaccine-faq-6-things-to... You'd have to look at the registered study details for the full protocol. See this BMJ article for references: BMJ 2020;371:m4058 | doi: 10.1136/bmj.m4058 It doesn't prevent herd immunity if it only prevents the disease (i.e illness) but it makes it very difficult to achieve strong suppression if there is vaccine hesitancy (a polite grab bag term for science denialism, people who watch Fox, loopy muffin brain people, etc) above 20%. Which there will be in many parts of the US and Europe because of years of uncontested bullshit. (Thanks Facebook.)
  - angry_octet 6y ago
    <loopy muffin brain has joined the chat>

estaseuropano 6y ago

> There is also a huge flaw in the testing of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: they didn't test everyone. Only people with symptoms (whatever that means) were tested (PCR). Wow, do you have a source for this? That's quite a stunning difference and really should put the ~~Pfizer~~ BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in doubt if the aim is herd immunity.

blueblisters 6y ago
Have a look at Table 4 here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/recs/grade/covid-19-moderna-vaccine.html#results https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/recs/grade/covid-19-modern... They seem to have preliminary results for asymptomatic testing: 14/14314 asymptomatic individuals were found in the vaccine group v/s 38/14073 in the control group. At least from the preliminary data, the Moderna vaccine nowhere near as effective in stopping asymptomatic infections.
angry_octet 6y ago
A more detailed overview: https://theconversation.com/covid-19-vaccine-faq-6-things-to-look-for-in-clinical-trial-results-150843 https://theconversation.com/covid-19-vaccine-faq-6-things-to... You'd have to look at the registered study details for the full protocol. See this BMJ article for references: BMJ 2020;371:m4058 | doi: 10.1136/bmj.m4058 It doesn't prevent herd immunity if it only prevents the disease (i.e illness) but it makes it very difficult to achieve strong suppression if there is vaccine hesitancy (a polite grab bag term for science denialism, people who watch Fox, loopy muffin brain people, etc) above 20%. Which there will be in many parts of the US and Europe because of years of uncontested bullshit. (Thanks Facebook.)
- angry_octet 6y ago
  <loopy muffin brain has joined the chat>