3 ms·

I disagree about Chapel's cost. A 5 cost Chapel would lead to extraordinarily unbalanced games where a good starting hand basically sets you up to win. Having

I disagree about Chapel's cost. A 5 cost Chapel would lead to extraordinarily unbalanced games where a good starting hand basically sets you up to win. Having the cost be 2 means that everyone gets access to it in the first two hands with out there being much swingy-ness in terms of the initial shuffle. Maybe an argument could be made for 3 or 4 in the sense that everyone would still have access to it, but 5 just seems too high.

SilasX 6y ago
>I disagree about Chapel's cost. A 5 cost Chapel would lead to extraordinarily unbalanced games where a good starting hand basically sets you up to win. It already has that. If you draw 2 coppers in your first hand (and thus five in the second or vice versa), you can start out with the awesome five-cost card and chapel.
- kevinmchugh 6y ago
  For serious competitive play, all players should have the same opening split, or get to choose 5/2 or 4/3. Chapel games tend to make this weakness obvious
  - LeonidasXIV 6y ago
    > For serious competitive play, all players should have the same opening split I would consider the Dominion League[1] to be serious competitive play, but it doesn't require that (also the current online client doesn't support that, presumably due to lack of demand) but what it does is to balance which player starts first, which can often lead to wins since in the end the game is often decided by a single turn. [1]: http://dominionleague.org/rules http://dominionleague.org/rules
leprechaun1066 6y ago
Chapel should just be removed from the game.
mattmaroon 6y ago
There are lots of boards where a 5/2 split is a tremendous advantage. Chapel already contributes to that, as the article mentioned, because the player who got 4/3 really got 4/2. You get Chapel and a good 5 drop and your opponent with 4/2 can just go ahead and concede on turn one. But making it 5 takes it out of the opening hand most of the time. That’s why most of the best cards are 5. I’m not 100% sure it shouldn’t be 3 or 4 but it definitely shouldn’t be 2. And I’m fairly sure that if it trashed 3 cards instead of 4 it would still be extremely playable (given how many times good players take worse trashing than that in the first round) and that the play testers back then just didn’t know the game well enough yet to understand.

SilasX 6y ago

>I disagree about Chapel's cost. A 5 cost Chapel would lead to extraordinarily unbalanced games where a good starting hand basically sets you up to win. It already has that. If you draw 2 coppers in your first hand (and thus five in the second or vice versa), you can start out with the awesome five-cost card and chapel.

kevinmchugh 6y ago
For serious competitive play, all players should have the same opening split, or get to choose 5/2 or 4/3. Chapel games tend to make this weakness obvious
- LeonidasXIV 6y ago
  > For serious competitive play, all players should have the same opening split I would consider the Dominion League[1] to be serious competitive play, but it doesn't require that (also the current online client doesn't support that, presumably due to lack of demand) but what it does is to balance which player starts first, which can often lead to wins since in the end the game is often decided by a single turn. [1]: http://dominionleague.org/rules http://dominionleague.org/rules

leprechaun1066 6y ago

Chapel should just be removed from the game.

mattmaroon 6y ago

There are lots of boards where a 5/2 split is a tremendous advantage. Chapel already contributes to that, as the article mentioned, because the player who got 4/3 really got 4/2. You get Chapel and a good 5 drop and your opponent with 4/2 can just go ahead and concede on turn one. But making it 5 takes it out of the opening hand most of the time. That’s why most of the best cards are 5. I’m not 100% sure it shouldn’t be 3 or 4 but it definitely shouldn’t be 2. And I’m fairly sure that if it trashed 3 cards instead of 4 it would still be extremely playable (given how many times good players take worse trashing than that in the first round) and that the play testers back then just didn’t know the game well enough yet to understand.