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By that logic you shouldn't engage in conversation or consume any media whatsoever.

by contingencies 6y ago

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
No, by that logic you should just be careful about what you consume, avoiding people trying to tell a story.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  How would you even literally describe events on the news without telling a story?
  - contingencies 6y ago
    Buddhist monks were traditionally encouraged to begin all teachings with a Pali language equivalent of Thus I have heard... https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.th...
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    AP and Reuters routinely do that.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      Really? You think these aren't "stories"? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migrants-trfn/asian-migrant-workers-locked-up-dumped-as-coronavirus-curbs-ease-idUSKBN28Y13D https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migran... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-0dd42cddbd6d2ecf7bf970f05da788d4 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politi... No cherry picking whatsoever here. These are just the first links on the respective news services' "top news" pages.
      - flyinglizard 6y ago
        “Routinely” does not mean “always”, especially as their own consumer facing news feeds are not the same as their news syndication.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        You can redefine "routinely" to mean just about anything. I "routinely" get my car's oil changed about once every 6 months. All I did was go straight to their site and pick out literally the first link in a list, and 2/2 were most definitely stories.
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
    “Yesterday, Airbnb went public at a price of $X. It has revenue of $Y. It was founded in year Z...” Versus “In 2008, the genius Brian Chesky woke up on a frigid San Francisco morning with a crick in his neck and looked out on the fog. He had just had a terrible experience with an evil multinational hotel chain...” (Just a hyperbolic example, not meant to be all encompassing) It’s less of a measurable outcome and more of a goal and methodology.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      None of that is news. That's an almanac entry.
srckinase123 6y ago
Conversations are different from documentaries in that they require two or more people, whereas documentaries is someone talking at you. As for media, there are different mediums of media that allow for more trickery. For example, if a documentary says so-and-so did X, it would take some while after viewing the documentary to check if so-and-so really did X. You are putting faith with the people creating the documentary to tell you the truth. Whereas, good non-fiction books lay claims with sources to back the claims, so you can immediately go to the source to see if the claim is really true. Also, video can be a very emotionally salient medium, thus may impede your more rational modes of thinking. Note: I am not against documentaries, nor is this a take on the Khashoggi documentary.
- curuinor 6y ago
  this was the argument that Socrates, according to Plato, said that the egyptian god Thoth made against doing writing!
  - srckinase123 6y ago
    Interesting is that in the Phaedrus?
- CerealFounder 6y ago
  This isnt even true. A conversation is just two people presenting their own versions of an idea to you (like documentaries). Sure the conversation can morph the ideas you take away, but in the end if you're worried about the packaging of an idea or information literally any conversation with an "other" is subject to rhetoric like any other medium.
  - srckinase123 6y ago
    Sure, conversation is subject to rhetoric, but what I am saying is that you are able (insofar as you are capable) of trying to unravel the rhetoric, as the conversation involves you and another person. Thus, you have more power in conversation. Whereas, documentaries is more passive. But if you are referring to conversations that you are viewing as a passive observer, then I totally agree with you.

By that logic you shouldn't engage in conversation or consume any media whatsoever.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

No, by that logic you should just be careful about what you consume, avoiding people trying to tell a story.

pmiller2 6y ago
How would you even literally describe events on the news without telling a story?
- contingencies 6y ago
  Buddhist monks were traditionally encouraged to begin all teachings with a Pali language equivalent of Thus I have heard... https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.th...
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  AP and Reuters routinely do that.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Really? You think these aren't "stories"? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migrants-trfn/asian-migrant-workers-locked-up-dumped-as-coronavirus-curbs-ease-idUSKBN28Y13D https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migran... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-0dd42cddbd6d2ecf7bf970f05da788d4 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politi... No cherry picking whatsoever here. These are just the first links on the respective news services' "top news" pages.
    - flyinglizard 6y ago
      “Routinely” does not mean “always”, especially as their own consumer facing news feeds are not the same as their news syndication.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        You can redefine "routinely" to mean just about anything. I "routinely" get my car's oil changed about once every 6 months. All I did was go straight to their site and pick out literally the first link in a list, and 2/2 were most definitely stories.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  “Yesterday, Airbnb went public at a price of $X. It has revenue of $Y. It was founded in year Z...” Versus “In 2008, the genius Brian Chesky woke up on a frigid San Francisco morning with a crick in his neck and looked out on the fog. He had just had a terrible experience with an evil multinational hotel chain...” (Just a hyperbolic example, not meant to be all encompassing) It’s less of a measurable outcome and more of a goal and methodology.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    None of that is news. That's an almanac entry.

srckinase123 6y ago

Conversations are different from documentaries in that they require two or more people, whereas documentaries is someone talking at you. As for media, there are different mediums of media that allow for more trickery. For example, if a documentary says so-and-so did X, it would take some while after viewing the documentary to check if so-and-so really did X. You are putting faith with the people creating the documentary to tell you the truth. Whereas, good non-fiction books lay claims with sources to back the claims, so you can immediately go to the source to see if the claim is really true. Also, video can be a very emotionally salient medium, thus may impede your more rational modes of thinking. Note: I am not against documentaries, nor is this a take on the Khashoggi documentary.

curuinor 6y ago
this was the argument that Socrates, according to Plato, said that the egyptian god Thoth made against doing writing!
- srckinase123 6y ago
  Interesting is that in the Phaedrus?
CerealFounder 6y ago
This isnt even true. A conversation is just two people presenting their own versions of an idea to you (like documentaries). Sure the conversation can morph the ideas you take away, but in the end if you're worried about the packaging of an idea or information literally any conversation with an "other" is subject to rhetoric like any other medium.
- srckinase123 6y ago
  Sure, conversation is subject to rhetoric, but what I am saying is that you are able (insofar as you are capable) of trying to unravel the rhetoric, as the conversation involves you and another person. Thus, you have more power in conversation. Whereas, documentaries is more passive. But if you are referring to conversations that you are viewing as a passive observer, then I totally agree with you.