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Not a comment on this one in particular, but I tend to stay away from documentaries. I have a friend who is a documentary editor and he can take the same footag

by doitLP 6y ago

Not a comment on this one in particular, but I tend to stay away from documentaries. I have a friend who is a documentary editor and he can take the same footage and tell completely opposite stories with it, cutting here, leaving out something there. He’s told me that it almost doesn’t matter what you give him, he can make it look however you want. I think people trust video more than anything but it’s important to be skeptical of the reality TV-esqe trope techniques that appear in lots of popular documentaries. They are storytelling like anything else.

contingencies 6y ago
By that logic you shouldn't engage in conversation or consume any media whatsoever.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  No, by that logic you should just be careful about what you consume, avoiding people trying to tell a story.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    How would you even literally describe events on the news without telling a story?
    - contingencies 6y ago
      Buddhist monks were traditionally encouraged to begin all teachings with a Pali language equivalent of Thus I have heard... https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.th...
    - flyinglizard 6y ago
      AP and Reuters routinely do that.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        Really? You think these aren't "stories"? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migrants-trfn/asian-migrant-workers-locked-up-dumped-as-coronavirus-curbs-ease-idUSKBN28Y13D https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migran... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-0dd42cddbd6d2ecf7bf970f05da788d4 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politi... No cherry picking whatsoever here. These are just the first links on the respective news services' "top news" pages.
        flyinglizard 6y ago
        “Routinely” does not mean “always”, especially as their own consumer facing news feeds are not the same as their news syndication.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        You can redefine "routinely" to mean just about anything. I "routinely" get my car's oil changed about once every 6 months. All I did was go straight to their site and pick out literally the first link in a list, and 2/2 were most definitely stories.
    - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
      “Yesterday, Airbnb went public at a price of $X. It has revenue of $Y. It was founded in year Z...” Versus “In 2008, the genius Brian Chesky woke up on a frigid San Francisco morning with a crick in his neck and looked out on the fog. He had just had a terrible experience with an evil multinational hotel chain...” (Just a hyperbolic example, not meant to be all encompassing) It’s less of a measurable outcome and more of a goal and methodology.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        None of that is news. That's an almanac entry.
- srckinase123 6y ago
  Conversations are different from documentaries in that they require two or more people, whereas documentaries is someone talking at you. As for media, there are different mediums of media that allow for more trickery. For example, if a documentary says so-and-so did X, it would take some while after viewing the documentary to check if so-and-so really did X. You are putting faith with the people creating the documentary to tell you the truth. Whereas, good non-fiction books lay claims with sources to back the claims, so you can immediately go to the source to see if the claim is really true. Also, video can be a very emotionally salient medium, thus may impede your more rational modes of thinking. Note: I am not against documentaries, nor is this a take on the Khashoggi documentary.
  - curuinor 6y ago
    this was the argument that Socrates, according to Plato, said that the egyptian god Thoth made against doing writing!
    - srckinase123 6y ago
      Interesting is that in the Phaedrus?
  - CerealFounder 6y ago
    This isnt even true. A conversation is just two people presenting their own versions of an idea to you (like documentaries). Sure the conversation can morph the ideas you take away, but in the end if you're worried about the packaging of an idea or information literally any conversation with an "other" is subject to rhetoric like any other medium.
    - srckinase123 6y ago
      Sure, conversation is subject to rhetoric, but what I am saying is that you are able (insofar as you are capable) of trying to unravel the rhetoric, as the conversation involves you and another person. Thus, you have more power in conversation. Whereas, documentaries is more passive. But if you are referring to conversations that you are viewing as a passive observer, then I totally agree with you.
throwawayay02 6y ago
"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him." - Armand Jean du Plessis Richelieu
ehsankia 6y ago
Or just watch it but don't take everything said at point value and do research afterwards. Generally every documentary has a ton of articles written on "why they were wrong" afterwards so you can get both sides of the story. You have to start by hearing one side of the story if you want to eventually get to both side of the story :)

by doitLP 6y ago

contingencies 6y ago

By that logic you shouldn't engage in conversation or consume any media whatsoever.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
No, by that logic you should just be careful about what you consume, avoiding people trying to tell a story.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  How would you even literally describe events on the news without telling a story?
  - contingencies 6y ago
    Buddhist monks were traditionally encouraged to begin all teachings with a Pali language equivalent of Thus I have heard... https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.than.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.183.th...
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    AP and Reuters routinely do that.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      Really? You think these aren't "stories"? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migrants-trfn/asian-migrant-workers-locked-up-dumped-as-coronavirus-curbs-ease-idUSKBN28Y13D https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-migran... https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-0dd42cddbd6d2ecf7bf970f05da788d4 https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-politi... No cherry picking whatsoever here. These are just the first links on the respective news services' "top news" pages.
      - flyinglizard 6y ago
        “Routinely” does not mean “always”, especially as their own consumer facing news feeds are not the same as their news syndication.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        You can redefine "routinely" to mean just about anything. I "routinely" get my car's oil changed about once every 6 months. All I did was go straight to their site and pick out literally the first link in a list, and 2/2 were most definitely stories.
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
    “Yesterday, Airbnb went public at a price of $X. It has revenue of $Y. It was founded in year Z...” Versus “In 2008, the genius Brian Chesky woke up on a frigid San Francisco morning with a crick in his neck and looked out on the fog. He had just had a terrible experience with an evil multinational hotel chain...” (Just a hyperbolic example, not meant to be all encompassing) It’s less of a measurable outcome and more of a goal and methodology.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      None of that is news. That's an almanac entry.
srckinase123 6y ago
Conversations are different from documentaries in that they require two or more people, whereas documentaries is someone talking at you. As for media, there are different mediums of media that allow for more trickery. For example, if a documentary says so-and-so did X, it would take some while after viewing the documentary to check if so-and-so really did X. You are putting faith with the people creating the documentary to tell you the truth. Whereas, good non-fiction books lay claims with sources to back the claims, so you can immediately go to the source to see if the claim is really true. Also, video can be a very emotionally salient medium, thus may impede your more rational modes of thinking. Note: I am not against documentaries, nor is this a take on the Khashoggi documentary.
- curuinor 6y ago
  this was the argument that Socrates, according to Plato, said that the egyptian god Thoth made against doing writing!
  - srckinase123 6y ago
    Interesting is that in the Phaedrus?
- CerealFounder 6y ago
  This isnt even true. A conversation is just two people presenting their own versions of an idea to you (like documentaries). Sure the conversation can morph the ideas you take away, but in the end if you're worried about the packaging of an idea or information literally any conversation with an "other" is subject to rhetoric like any other medium.
  - srckinase123 6y ago
    Sure, conversation is subject to rhetoric, but what I am saying is that you are able (insofar as you are capable) of trying to unravel the rhetoric, as the conversation involves you and another person. Thus, you have more power in conversation. Whereas, documentaries is more passive. But if you are referring to conversations that you are viewing as a passive observer, then I totally agree with you.

throwawayay02 6y ago

"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him." - Armand Jean du Plessis Richelieu

ehsankia 6y ago

Or just watch it but don't take everything said at point value and do research afterwards. Generally every documentary has a ton of articles written on "why they were wrong" afterwards so you can get both sides of the story. You have to start by hearing one side of the story if you want to eventually get to both side of the story :)