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We’ve Got Depression All Wrong. It’s Trying to Save Us
- onecommentman 6y agoDepression is still viewed as a pathology in current psychology practice. https://www.psycom.net/depression-definition-dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria/ https://www.psycom.net/depression-definition-dsm-5-diagnosti... It will take more than an article or two to turn this bug into a feature.
- rini17 6y agoBut it is a pathology, same as all other illnesses caused by adaptation to hostile environment. Even more so when the depression is sustained long after the environment has improved.
- foolmeonce 6y agoI don't think people who have escaped environments see them as gone. I think most modern maladaptation is people worrying about the life of younger members of their family based on what they know but can't really change. Even in the example, the father is physically escaped, but I think the patient has an unknown likelihood of repeating patterns of the verbal abuse from their childhood on the next generation and fear of doing that can lead them back to a depression response.
- touisteur 6y agoThat is very insightful - to me at least. The birth of my children has triggered (or made more apparent) lots of depression symptoms I thought I had overcome after a first round of therapy some years back. Turns out it's far worse this time.
- sjg007 6y agoI think one reason for this is we don't have the skills to manage the relationships positively since we grew up in such a hostile environment so when you get stressed it can be easy to repeat the patterns because we know they worked in the past. Those maladaptive strategies were in fact successful! So trying a new strategy is considered risky. This is something therapists can help you with. You learn new ways to communicate and manage these situations AND you get to practice them in a safe place before you need to use them.
- diogenescynic 6y agoSounds like depressive realism.
- Barrin92 6y agoI think it's a very plausible thesis because when it comes to many other abnormal mental states, like anger, or anxiety or even more severe diseases people have often noticed that it can also confer certain benefits. I think depression in particular is treated purely like a disease because of a culture that notoriously avoids suffering. If you have narcissistic personality traits people will still cheer you on if you run a successful company, people with manic traits sometimes turn out to be great artists, but depression is uncomfortable because it can't really be integrated into this fairly fast paced environment we're in, even if it functions as a protective mechanism.
- reducesuffering 6y agoThere are a thousand classic musicians that came from depression: Nirvana/Cobaine, Elliot Smith, Bright Eyes, Joy Division, etc.
- kowsheek 6y agoI'm surprised the article doesn't mention Dr. Gabor Mate at all. His work fully outlines how depression & stress can be a coping mechanism when we're not able to express needs or emotions. I highly recommend everyone to read and apply his approach to managing stress and psychological wellbeing. https://youtu.be/vMstO3U4sVw https://youtu.be/vMstO3U4sVw
- mikedilger 6y agoDepression may also prevent suicide because you lack the drive to take those steps. There is a pattern of people committing suicide a few weeks after starting on an anti-depressant (including one of my cousins and a late friend of mine), so much that it is listed as a side effect. I don't know if there is a double-blind study showing that the anti-depressant use is causal (and such a study is probably unethical), and depressed people are already more suicidal, so take my reasoning as a hypothesis and not a statement of fact. But it also makes sense evolutionarily. People who suffer depression may survive periods in their life when they would otherwise commit suicide, and people who don't exit life early, meaning that depression is naturally selected.
- tolbish 6y agoI suspect this is also linked to why suicide rates go up when the weather gets nicer, rather than during the colder and darker months.
- lhuser123 6y agoThe pattern you describe is very real. There’s also the hypothesis that some people actually get worse on anti-depressants. Normal people, that could have overcome depression with just enough time & counseling, becoming mentally ill & destroying their lives as a consequence of the drug itself.
- wodenokoto 6y agoThere’s a lot of anti anti-depression online, bordering some sort of antivax movement. I’ve been on medication, and what I read online about it and what my doctor and therapist say about the medication is almost completely removed. I’d prefer counseling to medication too, but if you have doctors recommending something, generally take their advise over HN and reddit.
- johnisgood 6y agoIf it was up to my doctor, I would still be on at least 4 different medications. I got them off by myself, and I am no longer anxious or depressed. Personally, none of these medications did anything. I did not notice side-effects either.
- 4778468d 6y agoDepression tells you that life isn’t working out and change is needed.
- operatorius 6y agoSomewhat related. I suffer from mygraines and I like to think of the attacks that they are caused by some sort of a circuit-breaker that tells me to slow down and take more care of myself
- viburnum 6y agoThere’s a kind of practical cognitive behavioral therapy developed by John Burns that’s very much in the spirit of this, without leaning so much on biological speculation. He has too many insights to summarize, but one I important perspective is that anxiety and depression have advantages, and it’s up to people to decide if they want to give them up or not. Too often therapists rush in to “save” people, which forces patients to dig in deeper. His podcast is pretty good if anybody is interested.
- closeparen 6y agoI don't buy this. Crying spells and slowed movements attract attention. Flat affect reads as ingratitude. Emotional deadening tends to leave you with the one emotion that will get you in the most trouble, anger. Lethargy and dread make you want to decline every invitation and activity, which is far from submissive - people feel you are rejecting them or neglecting your responsibilities. Really the only thing that seems adaptive is suppressing executive function / initiative. In every other respect, to keep your head down and avoid punishment you need to conform. Depressed people do sometimes manage this but they describe it as exhausting work, which was easier before they get depressed.
- andrewflnr 6y agoI've never been depressed, but this sounds all wrong based on accounts I've read. > Crying spells and slowed movements attract attention. Only if you're already around people. Slowed movements put you in the path of fewer people, especially in a pre-modern environment (say, hunter-gathering). The natural inclination of a depressed person is, afaict, not to leave the house at all. > Flat affect reads as ingratitude. Only matters in a particular type of social environment, which a person suffering depression would likely rather avoid. > Emotional deadening tends to leave you with the one emotion that will get you in the most trouble, anger. This doesn't square with any account of depression I've ever heard. I think it's an entirely different kind of deadening. And it's not about "submissiveness". If you're getting that from the one example in the article, I don't think you understood it. I think the theory is that depression is about avoiding negative stimulus/continuing damage/trauma. "Conformation" as the prime way to avoid damage, rather than staying out of the way of predators or, I don't know, conserving strength after an injury, is extremely modern. Depression can get behind sugar-craving in the line of things that just recently became maladaptive.
- closeparen 6y agoPeople generally have to cooperate with others to get their material needs met. What do you think happens to someone who withdraws from or alienates the tribe while they are least capable of protecting themselves or killing their own dinner?