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> 1. Keep your cat indoors. I don't know. I've been considering pets for several months since I'm now spending so much time at home and, as for many people loo

> 1. Keep your cat indoors. I don't know. I've been considering pets for several months since I'm now spending so much time at home and, as for many people looking for some at home companionship, it comes down to dog or cat. I've read a reasonable amount of material that suggests that if your cat is kept indoors it's a lot more likely to be unhappy. So if you must own a cat then keeping it indoors may not be the best strategy for the cat. On the other hand, the point about environmental impact of cats - killing of birds and other small animals - might be a really good argument against having cat full stop. If you can't keep it in a way that ensures its welfare whilst also ensuring that it doesn't cause havoc amongst the local wildlife, maybe don't get one at all.

posguy 6y ago
If you have previously let your cat outdoors on a regular basis, it will likely be unhappy if you stop letting it go outdoors. Outdoor cats get in fights with other cats, spread disease via their waste, kill birds and wildlife. Neighbors also can mistake your cat for a feral one and call animal control or trap your cat: https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/caring-community-cats-overview.pdf https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/carin...
- treeman79 6y ago
  We made it almost a year before our rescue got outside. He was instantly hooked. Would hide for hours under something near door. Bolt the moment it was open.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    Seems logical. They are wide roaming predators stuck indoors. If I lived in a box my entire life and then got to go outside just once, my preferences might change dramatically.
jjtheblunt 6y ago
We have 3 cats, and only one has any interest in prowling the yard, and we watch her like a hawk, only let her outside with us. The other two (one born feral, one in a shelter) have zero interest in stalking birds. They're not lazy, just don't care about stalking birds, are more "dog-like" perhaps. Point is, it's a proper subset of cats wreaking mayhem, and they have very varied personalities, which I offer as another datapoint.
- adzm 6y ago
  It is absolutely a subset. I've had many cats who go outdoors and only one really paid any attention to birds at all. They seem to be much more interested in rodents like shrews and voles. This is only my personal experience though, but I really would love to see further study on this, since I have bird feeders and a ton of birds in my yard. I'm also curious how it might be different in urban vs suburban and rural situations.
leetcrew 6y ago
> If you can't keep it in a way that ensures its welfare whilst also ensuring that it doesn't cause havoc amongst the local wildlife, maybe don't get one at all. I'm glad that you're taking the time to think through the responsibility that comes with getting a pet, but I think you are coming close to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here. just keep in mind that there are already more cats than homes willing to take them in (almost a million shelter cats are euthanized each year in the US alone). if we're talking adoption (and we really should be; deliberately breeding cats for sale is part of the problem, imo), you don't need to offer a perfect life for your prospective pet. you just need to offer a life that is worth living at all.
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  > I think you are coming close to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here. Completely agree here. We have four cats plus foster regularly... the catio definitely created net positive happiness, but the key is really just the elimination of boredom. Cats need stimulation just like people. Some toys, a tower, a good window - just keep on top of their needs and they will be happy
treeman79 6y ago
Cat was constantly sneaking out. Cat is much loved throughout neighborhood. Got really good at hunting. To the point a neighbor started shooting at it. We finally got good at keeping the cat inside. Cat became super depressed. Got a second cat. second cat peed in every laundry basket and bed in the house in a couple of days. Oh and first cat hated second cat. Things have calmed down, and cats are happy, and we now have a gate to bedrooms.
tayo42 6y ago
My likely unpopular opinion, humans shouldn't have pets any more, i think its an overall net negative driven by peoples selfish need to take care of a thing, be loved and have attention. Dogs are particularly bad. off leash owners cant control them, we have kill shelters, breeding for obscene prices, dog shit being left all over, dog fighting. Then people just don't know how to take care of them. I had a neighbor that left their dog outside for hours barking. such a nuisance for no reason, and that dog must have been living a miserable life. we keep breeding chihuahuas that no one wants, pitbulls that can't be adopted, and some of these pure breeds like bulldogs are just miserable, other pure breeds have health issues. Cats we're already talking about.
- bumby 6y ago
  The main counter argument I usually hear when this is brought up is that many of these animals have been bred for hundreds or thousands of years to be dependent on humans. To your point about kill shelters, I think the humane society has largely helped fixed this. There was an article on HN this week that claimed shelter killings was reduced from 20% down to 2% based on the efforts of the humane society since the 1970s. I may be biased as a dog lover, but most of your arguments seem to be based on bad owners. If we can stop bad ownership we should do so but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t think bad parenting existing should be an excuse for abstaining from having children either, unless we regress to a misanthropic world view.
  - hunter-gatherer 6y ago
    Thanks for this. In college I worked at the Humane Society and helped with the dogs. Very hard work. After working there I realized how most "breeders" are just random blokes with an AKC pure bread who get some dogs together. Some real breeders who monitor trace genetics and try to make the breed better exist, but these dogs usually cost a lot of money, and have specific purposes and customers. Sometimes I wonder if dog ownership should require a license and semi hefty fee (make it more a kin to adoption). But I am not sure... Disclaimer: I have a dog.
  - tayo42 6y ago
abacadaba 6y ago
Leash training is an option.
pstuart 6y ago
And if you are going to have a cat, get 2 so they have companionship.
- nadezhda18 6y ago
  or hate each other...
  - pstuart 6y ago
    misery does love company after all
cm2012 6y ago
I have 7 cats now and have had dozens of cats since I was a kid. Cats don't give a fuck about being outside if they've never been there. Now, trying to make an adult outdoor cat into an indoor cat is hellish. But if kept indoors from a young age they are quite happy.
- Brian_K_White 6y ago
  Or they are quite warped. Did it ever tell you it was happy? And do you have a substantial body of conversations with other cats to be able to analyse so you can tell when one claiming to be happy is instead stunted and warped and brainwashed into declaring it's love for it's cult leader?

posguy 6y ago

If you have previously let your cat outdoors on a regular basis, it will likely be unhappy if you stop letting it go outdoors. Outdoor cats get in fights with other cats, spread disease via their waste, kill birds and wildlife. Neighbors also can mistake your cat for a feral one and call animal control or trap your cat: https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/caring-community-cats-overview.pdf https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/carin...

treeman79 6y ago
We made it almost a year before our rescue got outside. He was instantly hooked. Would hide for hours under something near door. Bolt the moment it was open.
- tomcam 6y ago
  Seems logical. They are wide roaming predators stuck indoors. If I lived in a box my entire life and then got to go outside just once, my preferences might change dramatically.

jjtheblunt 6y ago

We have 3 cats, and only one has any interest in prowling the yard, and we watch her like a hawk, only let her outside with us. The other two (one born feral, one in a shelter) have zero interest in stalking birds. They're not lazy, just don't care about stalking birds, are more "dog-like" perhaps. Point is, it's a proper subset of cats wreaking mayhem, and they have very varied personalities, which I offer as another datapoint.

adzm 6y ago
It is absolutely a subset. I've had many cats who go outdoors and only one really paid any attention to birds at all. They seem to be much more interested in rodents like shrews and voles. This is only my personal experience though, but I really would love to see further study on this, since I have bird feeders and a ton of birds in my yard. I'm also curious how it might be different in urban vs suburban and rural situations.

leetcrew 6y ago

> If you can't keep it in a way that ensures its welfare whilst also ensuring that it doesn't cause havoc amongst the local wildlife, maybe don't get one at all. I'm glad that you're taking the time to think through the responsibility that comes with getting a pet, but I think you are coming close to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here. just keep in mind that there are already more cats than homes willing to take them in (almost a million shelter cats are euthanized each year in the US alone). if we're talking adoption (and we really should be; deliberately breeding cats for sale is part of the problem, imo), you don't need to offer a perfect life for your prospective pet. you just need to offer a life that is worth living at all.

poulsbohemian 6y ago
> I think you are coming close to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here. Completely agree here. We have four cats plus foster regularly... the catio definitely created net positive happiness, but the key is really just the elimination of boredom. Cats need stimulation just like people. Some toys, a tower, a good window - just keep on top of their needs and they will be happy

treeman79 6y ago

Cat was constantly sneaking out. Cat is much loved throughout neighborhood. Got really good at hunting. To the point a neighbor started shooting at it. We finally got good at keeping the cat inside. Cat became super depressed. Got a second cat. second cat peed in every laundry basket and bed in the house in a couple of days. Oh and first cat hated second cat. Things have calmed down, and cats are happy, and we now have a gate to bedrooms.

tayo42 6y ago

My likely unpopular opinion, humans shouldn't have pets any more, i think its an overall net negative driven by peoples selfish need to take care of a thing, be loved and have attention. Dogs are particularly bad. off leash owners cant control them, we have kill shelters, breeding for obscene prices, dog shit being left all over, dog fighting. Then people just don't know how to take care of them. I had a neighbor that left their dog outside for hours barking. such a nuisance for no reason, and that dog must have been living a miserable life. we keep breeding chihuahuas that no one wants, pitbulls that can't be adopted, and some of these pure breeds like bulldogs are just miserable, other pure breeds have health issues. Cats we're already talking about.

bumby 6y ago
The main counter argument I usually hear when this is brought up is that many of these animals have been bred for hundreds or thousands of years to be dependent on humans. To your point about kill shelters, I think the humane society has largely helped fixed this. There was an article on HN this week that claimed shelter killings was reduced from 20% down to 2% based on the efforts of the humane society since the 1970s. I may be biased as a dog lover, but most of your arguments seem to be based on bad owners. If we can stop bad ownership we should do so but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t think bad parenting existing should be an excuse for abstaining from having children either, unless we regress to a misanthropic world view.
- hunter-gatherer 6y ago
  Thanks for this. In college I worked at the Humane Society and helped with the dogs. Very hard work. After working there I realized how most "breeders" are just random blokes with an AKC pure bread who get some dogs together. Some real breeders who monitor trace genetics and try to make the breed better exist, but these dogs usually cost a lot of money, and have specific purposes and customers. Sometimes I wonder if dog ownership should require a license and semi hefty fee (make it more a kin to adoption). But I am not sure... Disclaimer: I have a dog.
- tayo42 6y ago

abacadaba 6y ago

Leash training is an option.

pstuart 6y ago

And if you are going to have a cat, get 2 so they have companionship.

nadezhda18 6y ago
or hate each other...
- pstuart 6y ago
  misery does love company after all

cm2012 6y ago

I have 7 cats now and have had dozens of cats since I was a kid. Cats don't give a fuck about being outside if they've never been there. Now, trying to make an adult outdoor cat into an indoor cat is hellish. But if kept indoors from a young age they are quite happy.

Brian_K_White 6y ago
Or they are quite warped. Did it ever tell you it was happy? And do you have a substantial body of conversations with other cats to be able to analyse so you can tell when one claiming to be happy is instead stunted and warped and brainwashed into declaring it's love for it's cult leader?