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Such die-offs are often a result of a "predator-prey" cycle wherein both the predator and prey populations vary inversely over the long term. It is nothing new,

Such die-offs are often a result of a "predator-prey" cycle wherein both the predator and prey populations vary inversely over the long term. It is nothing new, nor is it catastrophic unless you're part of the cycle. Perhaps in this case there were a lot of birds and not enough insects (food). So the birds die off. In a few years, with fewer birds(predators), the insects (prey) will return with a vengeance. In the midst of this new plenty, bird populations will rise dramatically, peak, and then die again. Rinse, repeat... "Predator-prey cycles": https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-ecology/hs-ecological-relationships/v/predator-prey-cycle https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-e... This article reminds me of the recent years' of German beekeepers writing fretful papers on excessive insect die-offs. Worrywarts have long forecast ecological disaster. But such things have been going on for eons and started long before man was present.

walleeee 6y ago
> It is nothing new, nor is it catastrophic. Predator-prey cycles are of course neither new nor catastrophic, but the planetary extinction event we're in the midst of is definitely a catastrophe. Maybe not yet to the same degree as the oxygenation of the atmosphere, but we're only just getting started.
hh3k0 6y ago
> It is nothing new, nor is it catastrophic unless you're part of the cycle. We are part of the cycle, though. Do not simply assume that our ecocide will not come back to bite us hard. Mankind already learned that lesson -- and it was a costly one: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306422018800259 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03064220188002...
jeffbee 6y ago
The problem is we've driven these species to the brink, so the "natural cycle" stands an elevated probability of killing them off completely. It's like the way we started out with a million sea otters, killed all but five of them to make fancy hats, and then when a shark eats one of the last remaining females we say oh well what can we do about nature? Luckily in that particular case the species recovered somewhat, but there are lots of examples of animals that we've reduced to a handful of individuals that now face extinction due to "natural cycles".
rossdavidh 6y ago
So, I had a similar thought to yours, which was that it is not unusual for populations of any animal in the wild to have long term cycles. The idea that this is necessarily not a big issue, though, does not necessarily follow. For example, some (not all) scientists think we have seen a large-scale decline in insect populations due to insecticides being used in ever-larger quantities in North America. If insectivorous bird species are dying of malnutrition, this could be a result of human insecticide (over)use.
- DFHippie 6y ago
  It's not just North America.
LatteLazy 6y ago
The fact that well fed, cleanly kept, domesticated bees have been dying in enormous numbers points to something more than the eb and flow of nature. As for the birds, you have to ask the same question: what makes you sure it's just Predator-prey?
- giardini 6y ago
  I didn't say that it was "just Predator-prey". But birds are definitely both, and exist in a web of predator-prey relationships. Therefore it is contingent upon the presenter to provide at least some evidence that this is a "runaway" situation - a "die-off" rather than the usual alternatives, which happen all the time as Exmoor states in his initial post on this thread. Instead we're shown a bunch of dead birds. That is followed by a chorus of webshits here providing subsequent "the sky is falling" lamentations, moaning and gnashing of teeth.

walleeee 6y ago

> It is nothing new, nor is it catastrophic. Predator-prey cycles are of course neither new nor catastrophic, but the planetary extinction event we're in the midst of is definitely a catastrophe. Maybe not yet to the same degree as the oxygenation of the atmosphere, but we're only just getting started.

hh3k0 6y ago

> It is nothing new, nor is it catastrophic unless you're part of the cycle. We are part of the cycle, though. Do not simply assume that our ecocide will not come back to bite us hard. Mankind already learned that lesson -- and it was a costly one: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306422018800259 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03064220188002...

jeffbee 6y ago

The problem is we've driven these species to the brink, so the "natural cycle" stands an elevated probability of killing them off completely. It's like the way we started out with a million sea otters, killed all but five of them to make fancy hats, and then when a shark eats one of the last remaining females we say oh well what can we do about nature? Luckily in that particular case the species recovered somewhat, but there are lots of examples of animals that we've reduced to a handful of individuals that now face extinction due to "natural cycles".

rossdavidh 6y ago

So, I had a similar thought to yours, which was that it is not unusual for populations of any animal in the wild to have long term cycles. The idea that this is necessarily not a big issue, though, does not necessarily follow. For example, some (not all) scientists think we have seen a large-scale decline in insect populations due to insecticides being used in ever-larger quantities in North America. If insectivorous bird species are dying of malnutrition, this could be a result of human insecticide (over)use.

DFHippie 6y ago
It's not just North America.

LatteLazy 6y ago

The fact that well fed, cleanly kept, domesticated bees have been dying in enormous numbers points to something more than the eb and flow of nature. As for the birds, you have to ask the same question: what makes you sure it's just Predator-prey?

giardini 6y ago
I didn't say that it was "just Predator-prey". But birds are definitely both, and exist in a web of predator-prey relationships. Therefore it is contingent upon the presenter to provide at least some evidence that this is a "runaway" situation - a "die-off" rather than the usual alternatives, which happen all the time as Exmoor states in his initial post on this thread. Instead we're shown a bunch of dead birds. That is followed by a chorus of webshits here providing subsequent "the sky is falling" lamentations, moaning and gnashing of teeth.