6 ms·

Zoom Shared US User Data with Beijing

42 points by notRobot 6y ago

notRobot 6y ago
TL;DR: Former Zoom executive Jin Xinjiang worked with Chinese authorities to provide data on users outside of China. It allegedly told Zoom that if it wanted to get back into the Chinese market, it had to monitor user communications, censor unacceptable topics, give data on around 1 million people in the United States, and hand over special access to Zoom's systems. Zoom got back into China's market in November of last year.
snvzz 6y ago
Why Zoom isn't blocked is a mystery to me. If it was up to me, it would be blacklisted in app stores, antiviruses (incl. windows' own), malicious website lists and data protection regulations. Instead, individuals, companies and government offices are literally using it.
throwaway4good 6y ago
Careful about this source. NTD is a part of the media empire of Falun Gong and related exile Chinese alt-right groups in the US. I would not count them as trustworthy at all.
- notRobot 6y ago
  Here's an alternative source: https://theepochtimes.com/zoom-shared-american-user-data-with-beijing-to-ensure-access-to-chinese-market-court-documents-show_3627905.html https://theepochtimes.com/zoom-shared-american-user-data-wit...
  - bigpumpkin 6y ago
    hahahaha Epoch Times as an alternative source to NTD. Now I've seen it all.
    - notRobot 6y ago
      Yeah, when I linked it I was unaware of the associations of the two websites. I have since educated myself on the matter and agree that trusting this article isn't the best idea, and that the [flag] was justified.
  - abakker 6y ago
    They are also a highly suspect source also associated with Falun Gong.
  - throwaway4good 6y ago
    Which is also part of the same media empire ...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- the_duke 6y ago
  https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-telecommunications-company-charged-disrupting-video-meetings https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-tele... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/18/zoom-helped-china-surveillance https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/18/zoom-he... > Jin monitored Zoom’s video system for discussions of political and religious topics deemed unacceptable by China’s ruling Communist Party, the complaint states, and he gave government officials the names, email addresses and other sensitive information of users, even those outside China.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    That’s a different story and set of circumstances than the title article.
    - trickstra 6y ago
      How so? Both articles talk about the same incident, and the washington post says it comes from unsealed FBI complaint. If US users talked on Zoom about Tiananmen square and Zoom terminated the meeting and gave Chinese government the usernames, that to me qualifies as "Zoom shared US User Data with Beijing"
- underseacables 6y ago
  With China, ANY source is more trustworthy than Chinese state media and its affiliates. It may be Falun Gong but at least it’s not the Ministry of State Security.
- mikeatwork 6y ago
  Even Zoom admits it https://blog.zoom.us/improving-our-policies-as-we-continue-to-enable-global-collaboration/ https://blog.zoom.us/improving-our-policies-as-we-continue-t...
sebow 6y ago
The fact that governments and critical staff use zoom is beyond me Let's just hope future dirt will be exposed if it exists,and more than that people become aware, since it was well-known that zoom sells data to a lot of parties, CCP included, for almost a year and it basically meant nothing, besides the somewhat fortunate event that decent alternatives have been developed and now exist.
progit 6y ago
I am very curious how Zoom took off out of nowhere at the very beginning of the pandemic. I believe I generally keep tabs on up and coming technology companies and never heard of Zoom until mid March. They kept popping up in media perhaps due to marketing effort? I still prefer Google Meet. Edit: I am getting downvoted within seconds. This is just me asking an honest question. Hmmm...guess CCP got to keep Zoom alive. Edit: My intention was not to be conspiratorial. I am genuinely curious how they rose so fast and what other factors played into their success.
- OneFunFellow 6y ago
  It's because it happened to be an easy to remember brand that is now associated with the product. Other examples are calling a tissue a Kleenex, calling a vacuum a Hoover, calling a cola a Coke, and so on. Many mainstream people call a video conference a Zoom and it happened to stick.
- tru3_power 6y ago
  Yea I was thinking the same thing. Seems like overnight there was a switch from WebEx to Zoom. Also not sure why you’re being downvoted
- detaro 6y ago
  Zoom didn't take off "out of nowhere", it was used by plenty people and places before too. One of it's main strengths probably was how easy it is to use (e.g. plenty of the competitors you can't just sign up for a free account and then invite people without an account) while working very well (which many of the WebRTC-based competitors in the "easy and free to use" category struggle(d) with). And then it quickly becomes self-reinforcing: if people get introduced to it they'll use it too unless they have a good reason to seek something else, which gave it a boost once video conferencing suddenly was something many people needed. (by now Microsoft Teams has anecdotally taken over lots of the corporate use, tech-y communities have gotten around to bring their own jitsi and BBB instances up, ...)
  - progit 6y ago
    Understood and I read about why it’s a superior product. However, we all know superior products do not always win. I don’t think the meteoric rise in Zoom can be entirely attributed to its product. For example, why did schools adopt Zoom instead of Google Meet when Google was already deeply integrated to remote learning? That’s a big puzzle for me. There was something else going on be it stealth marketing or something else.
detaro 6y ago
seems to be a duplicate/same story of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25474372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25474372
burnthrow 6y ago
> When Zoom usage exploded during the pandemic, China tightened control. It ordered Zoom employees to shut down what Beijing calls “illegal” meetings and accounts within one minute. If it took more than one minute, it was rated “security non-compliant.” Sounds like due process!
underseacables 6y ago
Any company that originated from, passes Information through, China should be viewed with absolute suspicion. If it’s something that needs to remain confidential, it would be prudent to consider a different option.

42 points by notRobot 6y ago

TL;DR: Former Zoom executive Jin Xinjiang worked with Chinese authorities to provide data on users outside of China. It allegedly told Zoom that if it wanted to get back into the Chinese market, it had to monitor user communications, censor unacceptable topics, give data on around 1 million people in the United States, and hand over special access to Zoom's systems. Zoom got back into China's market in November of last year.

snvzz 6y ago

Why Zoom isn't blocked is a mystery to me. If it was up to me, it would be blacklisted in app stores, antiviruses (incl. windows' own), malicious website lists and data protection regulations. Instead, individuals, companies and government offices are literally using it.

throwaway4good 6y ago

Careful about this source. NTD is a part of the media empire of Falun Gong and related exile Chinese alt-right groups in the US. I would not count them as trustworthy at all.

notRobot 6y ago
Here's an alternative source: https://theepochtimes.com/zoom-shared-american-user-data-with-beijing-to-ensure-access-to-chinese-market-court-documents-show_3627905.html https://theepochtimes.com/zoom-shared-american-user-data-wit...
- bigpumpkin 6y ago
  hahahaha Epoch Times as an alternative source to NTD. Now I've seen it all.
  - notRobot 6y ago
    Yeah, when I linked it I was unaware of the associations of the two websites. I have since educated myself on the matter and agree that trusting this article isn't the best idea, and that the [flag] was justified.
- abakker 6y ago
  They are also a highly suspect source also associated with Falun Gong.
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  Which is also part of the same media empire ...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
the_duke 6y ago
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-telecommunications-company-charged-disrupting-video-meetings https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-tele... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/18/zoom-helped-china-surveillance https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/18/zoom-he... > Jin monitored Zoom’s video system for discussions of political and religious topics deemed unacceptable by China’s ruling Communist Party, the complaint states, and he gave government officials the names, email addresses and other sensitive information of users, even those outside China.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  That’s a different story and set of circumstances than the title article.
  - trickstra 6y ago
    How so? Both articles talk about the same incident, and the washington post says it comes from unsealed FBI complaint. If US users talked on Zoom about Tiananmen square and Zoom terminated the meeting and gave Chinese government the usernames, that to me qualifies as "Zoom shared US User Data with Beijing"
underseacables 6y ago
With China, ANY source is more trustworthy than Chinese state media and its affiliates. It may be Falun Gong but at least it’s not the Ministry of State Security.
mikeatwork 6y ago
Even Zoom admits it https://blog.zoom.us/improving-our-policies-as-we-continue-to-enable-global-collaboration/ https://blog.zoom.us/improving-our-policies-as-we-continue-t...

sebow 6y ago

The fact that governments and critical staff use zoom is beyond me Let's just hope future dirt will be exposed if it exists,and more than that people become aware, since it was well-known that zoom sells data to a lot of parties, CCP included, for almost a year and it basically meant nothing, besides the somewhat fortunate event that decent alternatives have been developed and now exist.

progit 6y ago

I am very curious how Zoom took off out of nowhere at the very beginning of the pandemic. I believe I generally keep tabs on up and coming technology companies and never heard of Zoom until mid March. They kept popping up in media perhaps due to marketing effort? I still prefer Google Meet. Edit: I am getting downvoted within seconds. This is just me asking an honest question. Hmmm...guess CCP got to keep Zoom alive. Edit: My intention was not to be conspiratorial. I am genuinely curious how they rose so fast and what other factors played into their success.

OneFunFellow 6y ago
It's because it happened to be an easy to remember brand that is now associated with the product. Other examples are calling a tissue a Kleenex, calling a vacuum a Hoover, calling a cola a Coke, and so on. Many mainstream people call a video conference a Zoom and it happened to stick.
tru3_power 6y ago
Yea I was thinking the same thing. Seems like overnight there was a switch from WebEx to Zoom. Also not sure why you’re being downvoted
detaro 6y ago
Zoom didn't take off "out of nowhere", it was used by plenty people and places before too. One of it's main strengths probably was how easy it is to use (e.g. plenty of the competitors you can't just sign up for a free account and then invite people without an account) while working very well (which many of the WebRTC-based competitors in the "easy and free to use" category struggle(d) with). And then it quickly becomes self-reinforcing: if people get introduced to it they'll use it too unless they have a good reason to seek something else, which gave it a boost once video conferencing suddenly was something many people needed. (by now Microsoft Teams has anecdotally taken over lots of the corporate use, tech-y communities have gotten around to bring their own jitsi and BBB instances up, ...)
- progit 6y ago
  Understood and I read about why it’s a superior product. However, we all know superior products do not always win. I don’t think the meteoric rise in Zoom can be entirely attributed to its product. For example, why did schools adopt Zoom instead of Google Meet when Google was already deeply integrated to remote learning? That’s a big puzzle for me. There was something else going on be it stealth marketing or something else.

detaro 6y ago

seems to be a duplicate/same story of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25474372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25474372

burnthrow 6y ago

> When Zoom usage exploded during the pandemic, China tightened control. It ordered Zoom employees to shut down what Beijing calls “illegal” meetings and accounts within one minute. If it took more than one minute, it was rated “security non-compliant.” Sounds like due process!

underseacables 6y ago

Any company that originated from, passes Information through, China should be viewed with absolute suspicion. If it’s something that needs to remain confidential, it would be prudent to consider a different option.