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Handling servers and embedded Linux is much different than setting up an iPad, which is a consumer device...

grlass 6y ago
Indeed, purpose was illustrative hyperbole - I am used to frustration. Consumer devices come with less expectation of frustration, a justified expectation setting up Android devices, games consoles, Chromecast-type things, etc.
coldtea 6y ago
Yes, but that's neither here, nor there. First, because we could also have server-class devices that are quite easy to setup (similarly to how consumer PCs where much harder to setup in the past and are much easier now). We just come to not expect it, but that doesn't make consumer vs server something that inherently justifies "more difficult to setup". Second, because the "spend 1 hour to add an account on an iPad (and during an outtage at that)" is far from the common behavior of the iPad, to be representative of some inherent issue with it. So, it's more like "I had a quite unlikely and unrepresentative experience with an iPad and it put me off from such devices, whereas I tolerate the same far more often from servers and desktop machines and don't think twice about it". Which, put that way, is much less potent than "that damned iPad and Apple's walled garden wasted 1 hour of my life, I'm never going back to those", isn't it?
- grlass 6y ago
  If we're talking server class, then the average experience for me is a lot easier than what setting up that particular device was. From the perspective of an individual, whether or not your experience is representative of most people's experience of a similar thing only has moderate relevance. Most people find serial killers to be normal, or even charming. This is of little comfort to victims.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > So, it's more like "I had a quite unlikely and unrepresentative experience with an iPad and it put me off from such devices, whereas I tolerate the same far more often from servers and desktop machines and don't think twice about it". Sounds just like "I am a Mac user installing Linux on a cheap best buy laptop and whoa it doesn't work as well supporting a pretty obscure config that macOS would never even boot on, but am going to compare to my top of the line MBP and complain".
  - coldtea 6y ago
    How about "I'm an long-time UNIX user, having used and worked professionally on SunOS, HP-UX, AIX, Solaris before "package managers" were a thing, have used Desktop Linux in many varieties since around 1997 (Red Hat, Corel, Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, and others (including brief stints with FreeBSD), am all this time using Linux professionally for server work (solely Debian, Ubuntu, and Centos), and have used Windows since before 3.1 was a thing, and I still enjoy my Mac more"?
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      You missed the point. The point was how Apple users are also keen to dismiss an entire OS based on a singular, unlikely, bad experience in the same way OP was willing to write off the iPad based on his experience setting it up.

Indeed, purpose was illustrative hyperbole - I am used to frustration. Consumer devices come with less expectation of frustration, a justified expectation setting up Android devices, games consoles, Chromecast-type things, etc.

coldtea 6y ago

Yes, but that's neither here, nor there. First, because we could also have server-class devices that are quite easy to setup (similarly to how consumer PCs where much harder to setup in the past and are much easier now). We just come to not expect it, but that doesn't make consumer vs server something that inherently justifies "more difficult to setup". Second, because the "spend 1 hour to add an account on an iPad (and during an outtage at that)" is far from the common behavior of the iPad, to be representative of some inherent issue with it. So, it's more like "I had a quite unlikely and unrepresentative experience with an iPad and it put me off from such devices, whereas I tolerate the same far more often from servers and desktop machines and don't think twice about it". Which, put that way, is much less potent than "that damned iPad and Apple's walled garden wasted 1 hour of my life, I'm never going back to those", isn't it?

grlass 6y ago
If we're talking server class, then the average experience for me is a lot easier than what setting up that particular device was. From the perspective of an individual, whether or not your experience is representative of most people's experience of a similar thing only has moderate relevance. Most people find serial killers to be normal, or even charming. This is of little comfort to victims.
AsyncAwait 6y ago
> So, it's more like "I had a quite unlikely and unrepresentative experience with an iPad and it put me off from such devices, whereas I tolerate the same far more often from servers and desktop machines and don't think twice about it". Sounds just like "I am a Mac user installing Linux on a cheap best buy laptop and whoa it doesn't work as well supporting a pretty obscure config that macOS would never even boot on, but am going to compare to my top of the line MBP and complain".
- coldtea 6y ago
  How about "I'm an long-time UNIX user, having used and worked professionally on SunOS, HP-UX, AIX, Solaris before "package managers" were a thing, have used Desktop Linux in many varieties since around 1997 (Red Hat, Corel, Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, and others (including brief stints with FreeBSD), am all this time using Linux professionally for server work (solely Debian, Ubuntu, and Centos), and have used Windows since before 3.1 was a thing, and I still enjoy my Mac more"?
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    You missed the point. The point was how Apple users are also keen to dismiss an entire OS based on a singular, unlikely, bad experience in the same way OP was willing to write off the iPad based on his experience setting it up.