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> the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs Most "people who actually create things" like communities with an explicit, reasonable code of conduct. This is of co

> the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs Most "people who actually create things" like communities with an explicit, reasonable code of conduct. This is of course not to say that mistakes haven't ever been made in enforcement, or that some COCs are poorly designed. People under-appreciate the difficulty of building a community that people want to participate in. The problem is a close analogue to maintaining a desired company culture as it scales. The reason all these communities have "woke" guidelines for behavior is because the ones that didn't have reasonable guidelines no longer exist, or have remained at a size where a COC isn't necessary. Again, there's a fine line to be walked, so mistakes will sometimes be made, but if you think the "free for all" approach works, then you should try it. It won't scale once your community gets past a certain size. A few bad apples will spoil the barrel.

rococode 6y ago
There are people who like communities with codes of conduct, and there are people who like to be the ones in the community enforcing codes of conduct. I prefer to live in a country with laws, but I don't fancy being a police officer enforcing the law. And, while plenty of good folks do want to enforce the rules with the purest of intentions, there's no question that, as with any role of power, some people will try to get the job because they specifically want to exert that power and derive great joy out of doing so. I don't think many people are against the concept of a code of conduct itself - "hey, be nice to each other" is perfectly uncontroversial. It's when a few enforcers want to embroil themselves in a loud crusade against evil and stretch vague codes of conduct for their own gratification that we start to have controversy. A case like this one where the rule broken was basically "you were mean" but the "victim" didn't actually care, didn't support the investigation, and wasn't even aware there was an investigation, and a full inquisition complete with intimidation and public punishment was brought out nonetheless is a perfect example of a situation where some spectators can't help but wonder if the committee is truly out to do good, or if some members are acting rather recklessly for their own enjoyment and parading around a false banner of justice to get their next high.
- rewq4321 6y ago
  I don't think we disagree. I'm not pro-bad-enforcement, and I'm sure the phenomenon you point out does exist to some extent, just as we see in law enforcement. The "the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs" comment that I replied to is low-effort and worse than useless. The "all cops are bastards" phrase has a similar level of subtlety and utility. Describing all conference organisers and community moderators as "evil" is nigh on absurd, and yet that comment has been upvoted, and my reply is on -3. That's evidence enough that my reply was needed - as Jeremy mentioned in his blog post, there's an irrational destroy-all-COCs meme going around lately.
  - zarkov99 6y ago
    What would cause such a meme, as you call it, to replicate in a community as progressive as tech? How do you distinguish what you seem to think is collective irrationality from justified and entirely rational rejection of an idea, that no matter how well intended originally, continues to prove itself symbolically good but practically evil?
    - rewq4321 6y ago
      The occasional viral instance of poor enforcement would do the trick. I don't actually think there's a majority in the "COCs are evil" camp - not even close, but there's a very vocal minority group that has a lot of energy and is always ready to pile into a thread that is in any way tangentially related to COCs and post comments like "Moderators are evil right guys? Remember that time it was badly enforced? That means COCs are bad!" And they get upvoted for that. It's kind of amazing. Argue about the rules in COCs, or about the way they're enforced. Commenting things like "the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs" is just cringe-level bad.

rococode 6y ago

There are people who like communities with codes of conduct, and there are people who like to be the ones in the community enforcing codes of conduct. I prefer to live in a country with laws, but I don't fancy being a police officer enforcing the law. And, while plenty of good folks do want to enforce the rules with the purest of intentions, there's no question that, as with any role of power, some people will try to get the job because they specifically want to exert that power and derive great joy out of doing so. I don't think many people are against the concept of a code of conduct itself - "hey, be nice to each other" is perfectly uncontroversial. It's when a few enforcers want to embroil themselves in a loud crusade against evil and stretch vague codes of conduct for their own gratification that we start to have controversy. A case like this one where the rule broken was basically "you were mean" but the "victim" didn't actually care, didn't support the investigation, and wasn't even aware there was an investigation, and a full inquisition complete with intimidation and public punishment was brought out nonetheless is a perfect example of a situation where some spectators can't help but wonder if the committee is truly out to do good, or if some members are acting rather recklessly for their own enjoyment and parading around a false banner of justice to get their next high.

rewq4321 6y ago
I don't think we disagree. I'm not pro-bad-enforcement, and I'm sure the phenomenon you point out does exist to some extent, just as we see in law enforcement. The "the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs" comment that I replied to is low-effort and worse than useless. The "all cops are bastards" phrase has a similar level of subtlety and utility. Describing all conference organisers and community moderators as "evil" is nigh on absurd, and yet that comment has been upvoted, and my reply is on -3. That's evidence enough that my reply was needed - as Jeremy mentioned in his blog post, there's an irrational destroy-all-COCs meme going around lately.
- zarkov99 6y ago
  What would cause such a meme, as you call it, to replicate in a community as progressive as tech? How do you distinguish what you seem to think is collective irrationality from justified and entirely rational rejection of an idea, that no matter how well intended originally, continues to prove itself symbolically good but practically evil?
  - rewq4321 6y ago
    The occasional viral instance of poor enforcement would do the trick. I don't actually think there's a majority in the "COCs are evil" camp - not even close, but there's a very vocal minority group that has a lot of energy and is always ready to pile into a thread that is in any way tangentially related to COCs and post comments like "Moderators are evil right guys? Remember that time it was badly enforced? That means COCs are bad!" And they get upvoted for that. It's kind of amazing. Argue about the rules in COCs, or about the way they're enforced. Commenting things like "the evil mediocrities that enforce COCs" is just cringe-level bad.